To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

[Whyisthisacceptable]

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

do any of them question this behaviour which has appeared elsewhere on the internet and in real life - I should have been clearer.

I suspect so, I also assume as more civil discussions happen more and more people with middle of the road views will start getting the courage to speak up rather than follow the loudest voices.

Groups are not hive minds, it's not black and white, both sides are made up of many different opinions.

Do any of the trans allies/trans activists question it when other trans activists talk about bashing TERFs, or say that lesbians are wrong if they don’t want to have PIV sex with a trans woman who has a functioning penis, or when they shut down or no-platform even the most reasonable of debate with doxxing and shouts of TERF?

Yeah, that's wrong too. Terf is a slur too and not acceptable, and doxxing never is regardless of what "side" you're on.
Not really seen any of that on here though, and my Twitter isn't about trans. I don't tweet about this discussion.
Can imagine you do get that type of stuff on Twitter though and no, I don't agree with it.

i don’t draw other people’s boundaries.

As a society though, we do all kind of need to agree ish about what boundaries are reasonable and which patently aren't. So "drawing other people's boundaries" is a necessity to some degree.

The trans dictionary:
The definition of a book. A hard back book or paper back book.
The definition of TV: a plasma tv or a lcd tv.
The definition of a horse: a horse or a sea horse
Etc etc

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer I, as a fairly worldly mid 40s woman might not feel especially worried about sharing a public toilet or unattended open changing room with someone I don't know who has a penis, most of the time. I feel strongly that my teenage daughter shouldn't have to though, nor the Muslim girls in her class. Some girls wouldn't be allowed to use shop or pool or sports centre changing rooms if their parents knew people with penises were changing there, and would be forced to stop using the facilities altogether, having no other place to get changed if female sex segregation was removed in changing areas and toilets.

Women's refuges and women's prisons should never have to accept people with penises, and I feel strongly about that despite obviously hoping never to be resident in one! The women who are resident are often vulnerable victims of male sexual violence and should not be forced to give up sex segregation and be made vulnerable.

It doesn't matter whether the most robust of us don't especially need sex segregation in toilets, it matters whether more vulnerable young girls and women need sex segregated spaces. Allowing anyone who fancies it into all women's spaces seriously impacts on the freedom not of tough old birds but the most vulnerable women.

You do Verbeen - a friend of mine is currently dealing with a horrible doxxing/stalking situation by a TRA.

I have been threatened and had abuse hurled at me - my views on Twitter are no more extreme than anything I have expressed here.

And silencing....women have had accounts shut down for stating that #menarenotwomen

I meant - do any of them question this behaviour which has appeared elsewhere on the internet and in real life - I should have been clearer.

Just seen this bit - not in RL, as I don't know any personally.
Not elsewhere on the internet, like Twitter/FB etc as I'm myself on there and I'm not into debating trans. Except on here obvs

To an extent, Rat - but when one group of people are saying another group’s boundaries are bigoted...

Verbeena, I'm not surprised, tbh. You seem reasonable. The problem is you see that kind of thing as extreme. I don't disagree, I think it is extreme and proper batshit. But I have experienced it from so many - on Twitter, yes, but on completely disparate places online and in reality too - that I just don't see it as a rarity anymore. Which is possibly one of the reasons things do get polarised - you haven't seen much of that because you're not especially interested in the topic as a whole so no one has gone after you at all. When they do, it does change your perception somewhat. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but it is true.

Oh lordy, don't let me get drawn into pettiness... But beer says I must!

PreseaCombatir have you looked up the definition of "literally" recently? I'll paraphrase for you; it means literally and not literally.

Looks like your "trans dictionary" is, well, no different from an actual dictionary.

Sorry, we were all being so genial. Shoot me.

As floral says, although i may be ok with it i quite understand why others might not be

As a timely example, this just came to my Twitter:

Exactly blue

At no point have i ever said that self id is a good idea and as i just said above (i hadnt quite got to your post at that point) i quite understand that other women do have a problem

And i was just talking about bogs and changing rooms for me personally

Not prisons, refuges, rape centres etc

I agree OP. A huge amount of transphobia on here, disguised as concern 🙄

So yes blue

I think we pretty much agree

(I cant see anything I disagree with in your post...but i like to hedge my bets)

Aah, I see, Paraphrasing the word definition to... definition.
Lolz

RatRolyPoly do you not think that "literally means literally and not literally" is utterly meaningless?

Up means up and not up.

Night means night and not night.

Table means table and not table.

The point of the trans dictionary spoof was that defining things self referentially is meaningless. We all learn this when writing GCSE essays. You cannot define a term by using that exact term within the definition. "A table is a piece of furniture used for putting things on. It can be made of a variety of materials and often, but not always has 4 legs" not "a table is a wooden table or a glass table or a metal table. A four legged table is a table and so is a 3 legged table".
...

And it's that point of the evening again.

Phobia is fear. I am not afraid - I am furious at the doxxing, the abuse, the risks to women, at Shon Fay saying ‘women - enjoy your erasure’, at male bodied people in women’s sports, at lesbians being told they should accept PIV sex from male bodied trans women, at the whole way that the loss of women’s and girls’ safety and rights are considered an acceptable price for the promotion of trans rights.

Oh for crying out loud. We were actually having a calm and reasonable discussion for once, and you really want to pitch it back to the Punch and Judy stuff?

blue I agree with your sentiment, protecting most vulrenable in society is obviously important. In my opinion I think a GRC helps to minimise risks, we can never completely abolish any risk unfortunalty, man or woman, sex or gender segregation.

girls wouldn't be allowed to use shop or pool or sports centre changing rooms if their parents knew people with penises were changing there, and would be forced to stop using the facilities altogether
Girls being forced or not allowed to do anything that they wish to do, is a far bigger feminist issue. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, normalisation of mysogonistic culture and oppression of woman will never be an acceptable argument in my eyes for complete removal of trans using facilities.

weetabix

Its how you say stuff

Poster A ...i dont have a problem with transwomen in the bog, so i dont see what you are making a fuss about

Poster B... i personally don't have a problem with transwomen in the bog but i understand other people do have a problem

Which is possibly one of the reasons things do get polarised - you haven't seen much of that because you're not especially interested in the topic as a whole so no one has gone after you at all

They do from the "other side" though, you do get rounded on if you don't agree with the "accepted" feminist viewpoint.
Admittedly I haven't seen it as much from the other side. Not disputing it happens though, just haven't really seen it on MN.
I have read some tweets though (silent lurker following the hashtags lol when learning about the debate) and can well believe that some come out with extreme behaviour and I don't agree with it on that side either.

It’s interesting that there isn’t a flicker about the actual real life abuse I just posted. Directed at me. A few minutes ago.

But there were 3 pages of hand wringing about India W being called he.

Why is that?

I’m sorry, @SmileEachDay - I should have commented. You do not deserve that.