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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

999 replies

Whyisthisacceptable · 15/11/2018 18:55

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

OP posts:
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17
wrexhamtrans · 16/11/2018 19:48

We are 600 posts into a thread here and I think there has been a balanced discussion from all sides.

I am happy to say not one person has attacked me on this thread - quite the opposite.

When open dialog is allowed without forcing views on someone else and mutual respect is shown then it is possible to have a discussion!

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 19:49

I don't believe that you would get ridiculed for posting about other feminist topics

That was an interesting skirt of what I actually said though. So you do believe that you would be ridiculed/piled on if you have a different viewpoint? Seeing as you didn't address that bit?

or posting on threads about feminist topics that interest you

  • this is the bit I answered.
VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 19:51

I am happy to say not one person has attacked me on this thread - quite the opposite. When open dialog is allowed without forcing views on someone else and mutual respect is shown then it is possible to have a discussion!

Same. Agree.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 19:52

No I don't think you would be ridiculed or piled on for having a different view point on different topics.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 19:55

No I don't think you would be ridiculed or piled on for having a different view point on different topics

You do though. People, not just me, others on the thread are telling you that it happens too. You only need to look on the board to see (assuming people are capable of seeing it in the first place, that is.)
Handmaiden, TRA. MRA, is that a sealion incoming, why yes, I do believe it is! quick let's share recipes etc....
It happens.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 19:58

Yes it happens. No I don't think it would happen if you post on different feminist topics that interest you, with a different opinion.

What I get frustrated with is people berating posters for what they post without contributing to threads or starting them on things they want to discuss. I understand that you feel that you will get piled on and ridiculed for anything that you post in FWR, but I don't think that's true.

ButchyRestingFace · 16/11/2018 19:59

is that a sealion incoming, why yes, I do believe it is! quick let's share recipes etc....

That made me smile, but I'm not sure why because I don't have a clue what it means!

Can someone explain?

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 20:01

Also, some of what you describe is a defence mechanism against obviously misogynistic late night visitors who are just on a goady wind up from the get go. It's done deliberately late at night to avoid mods, and is usually horrifically sexist and unpleasant.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2018 20:01

Well it wasn't difficult, Ereshkigal, but I wouldn't want to deprive you of the opportunity to glower across the boards at me.

GrinWine

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 20:02

Yes it happens

I understand that you feel that you will get piled on and ridiculed for anything that you post in FWR, but I don't think that's true

So which is it then?
It happens, or it's not true?
I understand that you feel that you will get piled on and ridiculed for anything that you post in FWR, but I don't think that's true.

I didn't even say that. You're word twisting.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 20:04

Also, some of what you describe is a defence mechanism against obviously misogynistic late night visitors who are just on a goady wind up from the get go

Maybe so, but they get flung at actual women too.

FloralBunting · 16/11/2018 20:06

Fully in agreement that there will often be a circling of wagons on FWR, and certain phrases do get used that have gained currency but are less than helpful. I'm not really a fan of 'peak trans' myself, because I have wearied myself posting again and again that I am only interested in trans-anything because of the interaction the issue has had on women and girls, and peak trans is as clumsily inaccurate as 'TERF'.

There are often moments of impasse, and yes, tempers do get frayed. I'm not claiming that FWR is a convent full of women ready to be canonized at their passing.

Personally I'm always pleased when someone with an alternate view posts on FWR and sticks around for a lengthy conversation because I have no wish to 'shut down' anyone and I really, really want to move the conversation on from entrenched sloganizing and accusation.

There is no one hive mind on FWR, all of us have different approaches and motivations, and yes, there have been mistakes made at times. I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

But MN as a whole has always been a sweary, pull no punches place with a lot of different personalities, and the idea that AIBU is a cosier place than FWR for disagreement is very odd. This place is a fucking bear pit mostly and I hardly ever venture here myself.

VotingFox · 16/11/2018 20:09

RatRolyPoly Yes, this is why I am taken aback when GC FWR people say they specialise in Gödels Incompleteness Theorems, which as I understand it basically mean "You're never going to be able to be completely consistent about everything", so why get conceptually hung up about a few women with penises?

Though let's hear what Bertrand Russell has to say on it. Grin

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 20:09

I'm not trying to twist your words. Obviously I'm wrong and that's not how you feel.

Pile ons happen, everywhere. I don't think you would be piled on for starting a thread on a topic that interests you, if your opinion on it happened to not be the majority view.

EarlyWalker · 16/11/2018 20:15

StopTheHistrionics Thanks for sharing your opinion, I agree with a lot of your view r.e facilities.

I personally think a GRC is a good way to define transgender people. You must have either had surgery or be able to explain why you have not, you must have doctors diagnosis detailing that you suffer with gender dysphoria and any medication you are receiving for this. You must have lived as your desired sex for minimum of 2 years and plan to live as it for the rest of your life. Once you can prove these things, a committee looks into it and makes a decision. Personally, I believe once you have been through this you’ve earned your ‘right’ to be seen and treated as your desired sex. I know a lot of people do not go down the GRC route but unless we move into grounds of Self ID Or complete no-no, it is the only option.
In a case of sport, there is a biological advantage that needs to be addressed. I think a trans olympics type thing would be great as a transwoman would be hugely disadvantaged competing with men due to the lack of testostorone but with still higher levels than a woman, it would disadvantage woman. Likewise a transman would have advantages and disadvantages on both sides.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 20:15

But MN as a whole has always been a sweary, pull no punches place with a lot of different personalities, and the idea that AIBU is a cosier place than FWR for disagreement is very odd. This place is a fucking bear pit mostly and I hardly ever venture here myself

What people are saying (at least I am, anyway) is that it's not about sweary pull no punches. It's always been that way.
It's about the fact both sides feel able to "present" on here and they don't on the other board.

VotingFox · 16/11/2018 20:17

Grin Ereshkigal

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 16/11/2018 20:18

I'm still not sure what the phrase "drink the kool aid" actually means, it's getting used more and more, it's some kind of red american drink used to poison a cult of people?
Is it a saying from the US and Canada?

Aridane · 16/11/2018 20:21

Another one not knowing what an incoming sea lion is

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 20:23

Sealioning is a derailing technique, so a sea lion is someone sealioning.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 16/11/2018 20:24

I think that ‘drinking the KoolAid’ comes from its use by David Koresh in the mass poisoning at Waco, and implies an unquestioning willingness to follow a cult.

EarlyWalker · 16/11/2018 20:24

FloralBunting I saw your post on the thread about a trans rememberance service the other day. I stopped reading after your comment as i couldn’t believe my eyes at what I was reading before that or why there was any need really. I’m not sure if it was your intention, but I just wanted to let you know that it made me see it all as a bit less hostile.

SmileEachDay · 16/11/2018 20:24

It’s a shame that the more ‘radical’ posters couldn’t answer them how DARE you Early. In some circle I am considered very radical. And I’ve been told to “fuck off TERF” today, so I must be!! GrinGrin

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/11/2018 20:25

Kool-aid is a reference to the Jonestown massacre where cult followers drank cyanide laced kool aid. It's not a reference I use and I wish people generally wouldn't.

Ghanagirl · 16/11/2018 20:28

OP this site was initially aimed at mums and although it’s now a parenting site most posters are still mostly female and mothers.
We are worried about our daughters always coming 3rd as men always come first and trans people want to elbow women and girls out of the way even though our mothers fought to be heard.
I’m not allowing my daughter to be 3rd best neither do I want her sharing what is supposed to be a safe place with a trans boy or man (who still has a penis) when she’s vulnerable ie getting undressed or sleeping.