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Original poster

To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

999 replies

Whyisthisacceptable · 15/11/2018 18:55

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

OP posts:
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17
StopTheHistrionics · 16/11/2018 10:50

All the talk about hate crime but I'm accused as being a hateful person akin to a racist BNP member because I don't believe TWAW and should be in womens prisons.

No hate in my posts. Quite a bit in others.

PerverseConverse · 16/11/2018 10:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Elfinablender · 16/11/2018 10:56

Screenshot from a recent thread saying police officers that identify as woman will be able to search woman. (Not saying I agree with this)

Steady now - that sounds like a thought crime to me - now you'll have to die in a fire with us terfs.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:13

To be fair she was probably surprised you couldn't answer them yourself. You know, seeing as you asked her what a woman was when she'd already said the word covers trans women in her book

Exactly, @RatRolyPoly - but don't you know by now that if you don't answer "right' you get the "DERRRRP! try again!" button pressed so it goes round and round so what is a woman can be asked until it's the "RIGHT" answer?!

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:20

I don't "misgender". I get around using pronouns

I didn't say you did misgender. Confused I said it is rampant on the board. Especially on a few recurring threads about certain high profile transwomen, or if they're mentioned in threads.
Though if you're saying you don't misgender, but get around by deliberately using the wrong pronoun - can you actually hear yourself? Grin You "get around" by using the wrong pronoun as you won't accept them as transwomen. So you would deliberately be misgendering them. Denying their right to be a she.
Same. Thing.

StopTheHistrionics · 16/11/2018 11:20

Unless you come from an ethnic background where males are short and small framed and there is an early transition with female hormones (teens) then it's very easy to tell the difference between the sexes.

Height, skeletal (pelvis, jaw, shoulders etc) adams apple, hand size, feet size, skull (so facial appearence) etc etc.

I know several transmen and only one looks like he may be a natal man because he's 6 ft tall, weighs almost 20 stone and is incredibly hairy and covered in tattoos. To be honest, when he laughs he looks very female in his face though which must be about skull formation I assume.

The others look like very below average height men with much smaller frames and body composition than men. They're hairy too but look like a Hobbit version of a man.

And that's fine. They're happy with their lives and I want them to be. I don't believe for a second that people don't guess or at least think 'that's an unusually small feminine looking man' though.

Helperout · 16/11/2018 11:23

I haven't read all the posts but I am genuinely interested in an answer to this question and this is for any transgender/transfluid person:

What does it mean to "feel" like a man or a woman?

I am a woman and I couldn't tell you, I just feel like me.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as it quoted a deleted post

Avegemitesandwich · 16/11/2018 11:25

Exactly, @RatRolyPoly - but don't you know by now that if you don't answer "right' you get the "DERRRRP! try again!" button pressed so it goes round and round so what is a woman can be asked until it's the "RIGHT" answer?!

No. What actually happens is that you are asked further questions to back up and clarify your argument. You cant answer them, so then you start going on about people not accepting your answer because it's not 'the right answer', as you have done here once again.

Asking someone to back up their argument is a perfectly legitimate part of debate. In fact, it's what debate is. Surely you understand that?

Avegemitesandwich · 16/11/2018 11:25

Sorry quote fail on my last post

StopTheHistrionics · 16/11/2018 11:29

VerbeenaBeeks

I don't "misgender". I get around using pronouns

^I didn't say you did misgender. confused I said it is rampant on the board. Especially on a few recurring threads about certain high profile transwomen, or if they're mentioned in threads.
Though if you're saying you don't misgender, but get around by deliberately using the wrong pronoun - can you actually hear yourself? grin You "get around" by using the wrong pronoun as you won't accept them as transwomen. So you would deliberately be misgendering them. Denying their right to be a she.
Same. Thing.^

I don't misgender individuals. I wasn't a 'Spartacus' because of that.

I am aware I am pandering to peoples feelings though when I say something like 'Karen White had already raped girls/women with her penis when she was remanded to a female prison for a violent offence and sexually assaulted women using her erect penis'.

I'm aware those sentences don't make sense with female pronouns but I'll do it.

I don't agree she is a woman though.

Again, please show me the BNP type hate in my posts?

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2018 11:30

^Denying their right to be a she.
Same. Thing.^

They don't have a right to compel me to lie. Get it through your skull.

notavictim36 · 16/11/2018 11:30

Hohocabbage I get what you are saying but I have only seen this happen with gender. I am sure the non-Jewish people crashing into Jewish spaces etc happens rarely yet with trans it seems to be a thing?

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2018 11:31

^verbeena - that was the thread that peak terfed me and shocked me to the core*
For me it was the Park Run thread. Another awful one that ended up being deleted altogether.^

Oh yes you were clearly both massive GC feminists before that.

Avegemitesandwich · 16/11/2018 11:32

Denying their right to be a she.

They have the right to call themselves 'she' if they wish. They do not have the right to force others to join in with that lie.

They don't have 'the right' to be a she, because they are not a she.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 16/11/2018 11:33

Yes it is frustrating that the same arguments go round and round. One group insists that transwomen are women, the other asks what they mean by "woman" then. It is at an impasse and I can't see a way out.

EverardDigby · 16/11/2018 11:34

They don't have a right to compel me to lie.

I can't lie either. Not just about this, about other things. I'm not quite sure why not, but it makes me feel panicky, I just can't do it.

ToastyFingers · 16/11/2018 11:34

I don't judge trans people differently in any way. Just like the rest of the human race, some are lovely and some are awful.
I have a handful of friends who are trans and they all agree that self-ID is a terrible idea. They also agree that it isn't possible to change sex.
There are radicals in every group though, and unfortunately these are the people currently shouting the loudest.

I won't be told how to refer to myself though. That's up to me alone.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:37

@Weetabixandshreddies

Yes to all of that, that is exactly how the threads go. You've got everything down to a tee. It follows a pattern, it's script like!

notavictim36 · 16/11/2018 11:37

Ereshkigal I actually am with you on this- I feel uncomfortable going with "preferred gender" pronouns so tend to use "they" so as not to cause offence.

I would not ever misgender someone to have a dig at them or bully them but although I believe GD is a real thing and must be hell to live with, I just cannot believe that people can change sex. I feel unable to make that leap in my brain, sorry.

Really hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings. Maybe I am just ignorant and narrow minded. But for me it is a freedom of conscience thing. Some people belong to religions that believe LGBT are abnormal or wrong. However much many of us may disagree with those views, this is a free country and if people feel uncomfortable using preferred pronouns, should they be forced to??

IMO, misgendering should only be regarded as hate crime if it is done deliberately and repeatedly as a form of bullying. Nothing wrong with just saying they or not using a pronoun due to personal belief. As long as we are not setting out to bully Transpersons, surely that is what counts?

I thought with hate crimes anyway, intent was the main thing?No hateful intent, no hate crime. At least that is how works with racism, disabilism etc

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 16/11/2018 11:38

Denying their right to be a she.

Nobody has the right to be the opposite sex because that would be impossible.

What currently exists is the legal fiction that they should be regarded as the opposite gender for certain purposes but not where there is segregation by sex.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2018 11:39

It follows a pattern, it's script like!

So are you.

otterturk · 16/11/2018 11:39

ODfod

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:41

I never claimed to be a "massive GC feminist" before that. Hmm
I did used to post more from the GC point of view though as I'm a woman concerned about possible free for all self ID and learning about it all from here.
As soon as it became clear that some have a problem with all transwomen, you can't "unsee" it.
Just like those saying peaktrans - how once you see, you can't unsee, the same goes the other way.
Once you see bigotry, of which there is some, you can't unsee.

VerbeenaBeeks · 16/11/2018 11:42

Responding to people on here.Like people tend to do. Or are you only allowed to do that if you're replying "right" and to the right people?