To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

[Whyisthisacceptable]

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

the constant referral of them being men, calling ones who are she "they" as refuse to accept she or say their name over and over again so they don't have to say she when typing.

Yeah, you're never going to compel me to believe they are women. Because they are not.

VerbeenaBeeks

Absolutely. I agree with all that you say. The sentiment behind their words is glaringly obvious. They just about cling to the "right" side of the guidelines by the skin of their teeth and so they claim it can't be trans phobic because it hasn't been deleted. So, to use your example, misgendering isn't allowed. The post we be deleted and the poster possibly banned. So they get around this by saying "they" instead. The intention is the same though as if they had said "he". I can't see any difference.

It's abhorrent.

Weetabix and verbeena, do you disagree with the reasons expressed by wrexhamtrans, myself and others, why it's ended up like this?

This thread is accusing people of hate crimes, and you list the nastiness you've seen in the last 24 hours.

In the last couple of days I have experienced the following:

• Being told I'm a TERF for opposing self id, and that there is "no debate".
• TRAs being glad about a woman they disagree with having cancer.
• TRAs saying women should be put in jail for the 'hate crime' of not agreeing TWAW.

Have you tried discussing self-id with these groups? Have you castigated them for their hatred like you are doing here? You'd end up banned/on terfblocker for even trying. That is the difference.

Undoubtedly because mumsnet is one of the few places that allows free discussion about this (despite the many attempts by TRAs to stop them), there will be posters who are transphobic. And that's why the mods have the rules they do. If you disagree with the rules or the way they are administered then you are free to tell them why not.

Because you don't have the right to compel me to lie. How tiresome for you.

I don't "misgender". I get around using pronouns.

Nobody is saying that there is no concerns about self ID

Except lots of people do say that, we are constantly being told that, which is why a place like MN where we can express concerns about self ID are so useful.

but I know there's some who "have a problem with them all." One on here for starters said it on another thread

The horrors! Someone said they "have a problem with them all"! And yet when I see TRAs posing wih knives, see the rape and death threats, when I see TRAs on "lesbian" marches wielding baseball bats, when I sit in a public meeting and it's difficult to hear the speakers over the chants of "burn it down! burn it down!" from the TRAs outside, well, I remember that someone on mumsnet said "they have a problem with them all" and it all suddenly seems much more proportionate.

wrexhamtrans Since you’ve said you’ve never experienced hate on these boards, can I ask you how do you feel about being referred to as a man with a fetish? And the refusal to refer to you as ‘she’?

"GRC have always been given out with no need for any medical intervention "

GRC requires a formal diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from 2 specialists in Gender Identity.

you cannot self identify for a GRC.

Could you ask us how it makes us feel for the word woman to be changed to include men. Could you ask us how it makes us feel to be made to lie. I can tell you if you like.

Could you ask us how it makes us feel for the word woman to be changed to include men. Could you ask us how it makes us feel to be made to lie. I can tell you if you like.

This.

EarlyWalker, have you even read the thread?? It is wrexhamtrans who has been pointing out is how trans has been hijacked by the fetishists. I have not seen anyone call them a 'man with a fetish'. If you have then please point it out.

I don't mind using preferred pronouns or preferred names. I think it's respectful of that persons life choices.

If asked outright do I believe you are of the opposite sex, no I don't. You're a transwoman/man. And I have no issue with that whatsoever. But it is impossible to change sex.

I'm still not seeing the hate.

I am sick of reading posts like this where anybody raising a query or God forbid an opposing view is accused of "trans bashing`" .

What about all the womenreal women bashing that is seemingly acceptable these days?

I am far more offended and deeply concerned at this OP.

Women's rights were extremely hard fought for and I for one am delighted that there is at least this space where adult, informed and civil discussion is permitted.

YABVVU

EarlyWalker, alas, regularly demonstrates an inability to engage with what people actually say in favour of "display arguing" with EarlyWalker's preferred strawman.

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads.

Errr, no. No trans bashing at all, womens rights discussions. And not the "whole" of active threads. Adding some screen shots, just to help you out, because you seem very confused this morning.

I have a 4th picture, adding below.

4th screen shot

It’s stone wall who think trans people include those with a sexual fetish, not feminists. The GRC process would weed such people out and allow through transsexuals such as Wrexham. But that is not what TRAs want.

Screenshot from a recent thread saying police officers that identify as woman will be able to search woman. (Not saying I agree with this) this is just to show an example of the first few responses to any trans related issue. Do you think this is acceptable?

wrexham do you have a GRC?

"Wrexhamtrans Since you’ve said you’ve never experienced hate on these boards, can I ask you how do you feel about being referred to as a man with a fetish? And the refusal to refer to you as ‘she’?"

Unfortunately I have come to accept that the widening definition of transgender means that transsexual people are now a minority. I don't accept many transgender people so I can't complain that people don t accept me.

When people reject transsexual women it is not me they are rejecting so it would be pointless to take it personally. When the view that it is being put forward by trans activists that transgenderism from sexual fetish is valid then the blame for how women feel towards me lies at their doorstep.

Not saying I agree with this)

Why wouldn't you?

RiverTamFan

GRC have always been given out with no need for any medical intervention "

GRC requires a formal diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from 2 specialists in Gender Identity.

you cannot self identify for a GRC.

I made it quite clear you require a diagnosis of GD under current legislation. You don't need to have any intervention beyond that such as hormones or surgery.

But transgenderism is by it's very nature 'self ID' because whether formally diagnosed as GD or not, it is entirely based on the individuals sense of self. There isn't a test or scan that can do it. No-one can spot someone on the street and say they're trans, it's based on that persons personal feelings and sense of self.

I can completely understand the PP who appears female not wanting to use the men's toilet

What does "appears female" mean? We're programmed to be able to distinguish between men and women for sexual relationship purposes, in the case of heterosexual relationships it's what keeps our species going, and we also have had it drummed or harassed or beaten into us to keep ourselves safe from abusive men. We're all pretty good at identifying who's male and who's female and it's not about clothes or make up.

Early Walker....

I don't get have a GRC but it is in process and has been complicated by other factors.

Earlywalker the screenshot just shows women being angry at something ridiculous that affects them. Are women not allowed to express anger?

"what does "appears female" mean? We're programmed to be able to distinguish between men and women for sexual relationship purposes, in the case of heterosexual relationships it's what keeps our species going, and we also have had it drummed or harassed or beaten into us to keep ourselves safe from abusive men. We're all pretty good at identifying who's male and who's female and it's not about clothes or make up."

On female hormones it can be very difficult to identify someone as male.. Changes in muscle mass, body fat redistribution, change of smell etc are all subtle changes that subconsciously identify someone as female.