To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

[Whyisthisacceptable]

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

"Imagine being so sure you was born as the wrong sex that you was severely depressed your whole life but women only thought you did it because you wanted to destroy all of their rights"

I absolutely relate to the first part but I have never thought that any woman believed that of me.

Those who women think (quite rightly) want to destroy their rights are the sexual fetishists and the wannabes....those who hijack trans for their own agenda.

Very very few woman have ever had an issue with me as a medically transitioned, diagnosed dysphoria transsexual.

An alternative view is simply not allowed.

And yet here you are, Weetabix, expressing that alternative view freely. Nobody has doxxed you for it, threatened your children, tried to get the funding for your charity employers withdrawn, or threatened to rape you with a serrated dildo. Amazing, isn't it?

I am sure you spend just as much time on TRA boards, expressing the same sentiment to them, about this need for a free and full discussion. Well done you, we're all very grateful, I'm sure.

Early walker, is sex segregation a hate crime then. My dh is not a rapist or any risk to women whaysover. He is not allowed in women's spaces. Am I behaving like a bigot towards him, he doesn't seem to think so .

No hate at all. Just fact. You cannot change sex.

'Transsexuals' have always 'self ID', it's not something you can conclusively prove, it's always been based on that persons feelings and narrative. GRC have always been given out with no need for any medical intervention other than a diagnosis of GD and 'living as the preferred gender'.

Which was never a problem for me or most people. I have trans friends but they never demanded I consider them as anything other than trans.

Feel free to point out the hate in any of my posts though.

1/ Adult human female

2/ Adult human who meaningfully identifies as female

Lol. Define "meaningfully". Define what these adult males are defining themselves as by "female".

I also had numerous cross-dressing friends in my clubbing days in the 90s. And none of them ever demanded I see them as anything but cross-dressers either. They certainly wouldn't demand access to female spaces either.

A cat.

1. Felis catus.

1. Also dogs who use a flap in the door.

1. Rabbits which use a litter tray

Oh, I see we're back to define a wommmmannnn!

FFS, these threads are ridiculous.

"Imagine being so sure you was born as the wrong sex that you was severely depressed your whole life but women only thought you did it because you wanted to destroy all of their rights"

Lets break that down. the first part is accurate, that some people can have such severe dysphoria they are depressed.
Imagine being so removed from other women you have never heard of any of them having dysmporphia - anorexia. bulimia, being driven to plastic surgery. Women know what depression and dysmporphia are.
Dysmorphia and depression are not a good enough reason to make women only spaces and services mixed sex.

The second part is a misrepresentation of what women are saying. Making women only spaces mixed sex makes them unsafe for women. It breaks safeguarding. It means many women will be unable to use them.

Trans people and their supporters need to find other solutions to their problem. Ones that dont take rights away from vulnerable women and girls.

I never said sex segregation was a hate crime?

What Ive seen as hateful on these boards on the few threads I’ve read in the last 24 hours is this:

• referring to transsexuals as a ‘man with a fetish’
• constantly calling transwoman men
• taking the piss out of transgender rememberance service

That is what I have a problem with. It’s also funny that when asked questions as to why you do not campaign against the misogony in Islam, despite there being more than 10x a Muslim population in Britain than a transgender one, no one seems to answer.

If this is really about woman’s rights, why do you not care about these woman? Why is every post about transgender people? What about trumps America? the repeal of the 8th? Domestic abuse? Woman in Saudi? The list goes on... but I was told I cannot be a feminist as my opinion that a transwoman with a GRC should be able to use the woman’s facilities, as this is apparently what feminism is these days.

OP, YANBU, it is full of it. Nobody is saying that there is no concerns about self ID, but I know there's some who "have a problem with them all." One on here for starters said it on another thread.
And that's where the debate MN falls down - allowing all but the out and out blatant to stand., guideline skirting hate gets left.

Being female is not a proselytising group. We are not looking for converts. If there is a, say, Jewish space at a university where Jewish people come together to talk about any issues relating to them as members of that religion, they should not have to allow in even REALLY NICE people who are not Jewish and mean them no harm. I don’t think keeping female spaces for women (and there aren’t that many of them let’s be honest) is just about the threat a male may or may not pose to them.

VerbeenaBeeks

It’s like it’s their trump card! Dictionary definition - An adult human female. What is a female? Dictionary definition - Someone who is of the sex, or denotes to be of the sex that produces ova.
In my opinion the denotes applies also to Transwoman.

Please tell me - what is your definition of a bigot?

Somebody has come onto the thread and explained to you that what it means to them, and their lived in experience.
How arrogant or dismissive does anyone have to be to say they are goady/naive/break it down again as you've given the wrong answer, try again?
This debate will never go anywhere if people just refuse to listen to anyone else.

Sorry that wasn’t to Verbeena I was agreeing with her ‘back to the woman’ statement ...

@EarlyWalker It’s like it’s their trump card!

You're not kidding, lol!

Yes, I'd like to know too. Anyone like to define bigot?

I hope Jellybaby666 doesn't mind me re-posting their post from the Comic Relief thread - I found it absolutely spot-on. We never hear of transmen making demands that men accommodate them, only transwomen and TRAs demanding accommodation from women.

Jellybabies post is as follows:

No-one (I hope) is saying trans women (and men) don't deserve a seat at the table - I certainly am not. However, my issue is that rather than us all making room for trans people at the table (go with my metaphor) we as women have to give up our seat for transwomen. And it's not that I don't want you to sit down, I do, but also we have fought for a long time to get this measly seat at the end of the table and now all of that is worthless because you demand MY seat? And there is a sense of entitlement on their behalf because they were born privileged men in a patriarchal society who don't appreciate what it means to be raised female in that society and why we just want to bloody sit down and get on with it, and not be told that our experience is meaningless and how them sitting down is also me sitting down. Except its not. It's just another privileged male born demanding women make room for them.

Well said.

secondly it refers to those who have self declared themselves as trans and not those holding a GRC,

How many of the

You can't seem to make your mind up. You're saying women shouldn't fear a small number of male bodied persons or 'tar them all with the same brush'. Yet here you're supporting a TW saying she doesn't feel safe in male spaces. Shouldn't you be telling her not all men are like that then?

I don't see how I am contradicting myself.

We segregate toilets here by using the terms men and women. The expectation would be that people who appeared to be male or female would use the appropriate toilet. As a woman it would look weird if I walked into the gents. I wouldn't feel unsafe but I would expect to be looked at and probably told that I was in the wrong place.

I can completely understand the PP who appears female not wanting to use the men's toilet. They don't necessarily feel unsafe or threatened just that the norm is not for someone who looks female to be going in to the men's toilet.

If we segregated based on wearing trousers or a dress, then fine - we would use the appropriate toilet, or if we had to provide a birth certificate or GRC again fine, use the appropriate toilet. But we don't. Ultimately the toilets are self policed depending on who we judge, based on appearance, should be in which toilet.

Early walker in response to a poster saying that transwomen shoul not be allowed in sex segregated places because they are not women you started telling us that we were equivalent to the bnp and that they were comfortable expressing their hate because they were supported by the majority. It is not a hate crime to implement sex segregation.

What Ive seen as hateful on these boards on the few threads I’ve read in the last 24 hours is this:- referring to transsexuals as a ‘man with a fetish’ - constantly calling transwoman men- taking the piss out of transgender rememberance service

Yes to all of that. The Remembrance threads were and are awful. Nothing to do with self ID concerns.
You missed though constant misgendering. I always used to think "how on earth is it hateful to call someone by the wrong pronoun? Don't be ridiculous."
You read enough of these threads though and you see EXACTLY why it is - it's the refusal to accept any of them, the constant referral of them being men, calling ones who are she "they" as refuse to accept she or say their name over and over again so they don't have to say she when typing.
Can't imagine what it's like to be on the receiving end of all that shit.

I don’t think keeping female spaces for women (and there aren’t that many of them let’s be honest) is just about the threat a male may or may not pose to them

This. This issue is about privacy and dignity. I do not consent to male people in my female spaces. Why should I?

We segregate toilets here by using the terms men and women. The expectation would be that people who appeared to be male or female would use the appropriate toilet.

What rubbish. No the expectation is that male people use the male toilet.

Transwomen, keep going with your guideline skirting though. We know you don't accept any transwomen.

I use disabled toilets but were I to use a female toilet would anyone really have an issue knowing I was diagnosed, on HRT, had breasts and therefore was vulnerable in a male environment and had been castrated ?

They very clearly said having female hormones (HRT) and having breasts makes them vulnerable in a male environment.

Do you think a female or female presenting person is vulnerable in a male environment or not?