The whole shit show can hardly be blamed on Theresa May can it

[dawnacorns]

I'm hardly her number one fan but I can't see how getting rid of her is the answer. They just don't seem to know what they're doing. It's an absolute mess whichever way you look at it.

Your not singing, your not singing, your not singing annnnyyyymoooorreeeeee your not singing any more.

Nope doesn't make me feel any better.

Well that didnt go the way I meant but you probably got the jist.

It's all very quiet on the Brexit boards when you consider what is going on.

It's all most as if the leavers are hiding.

They should be hiding their faces in shame.

The country was given an in or out vote. Nothing else. It’s the politicians making a mess of it. Not the 17 million leave voters. No one should be ashamed of how they voted when they were given a choice.
Politics will always divide people. Whether it’s in the work place or when it comes to voting at elections.

Brexit was always going to be a shit show. They had no plan - that was obvious. They had no idea about negotiations- that was obvious. The Tory party is split down the middle - that was obvious. The EU would hold firm in negotiations- that was obvious.

If you voted for this pile of crap own it and stop blaming everyone else. Brexiters tell us how they are not stupid and they researched and used their powerful brains. Well this was entirely predictable.

Don't blame politicians for trying to implement the ludicrous policy you voted for.

I am so bored with the term "shit show" - isn't there another expression that's come into common usage use yet?

mouse who is this "they"? ASFAIK the Referendum wasn't about voting for politicians or anything similar - it was about In/Out of the EU - there wasn't anything else asking would you rather this, or would you rather that. Should we exit/stay this way or do you have a preference?

It is rather unfortunate that 'politics' and politicians and a kerzillion civil servants, advisors, etc are thrashing it out - but that is what happens. Or, as it hasn't happened before, will happen until a precedent is set; which another EU Member State can follow too, when their Electorate votes to Leave, which is always possible/probable.

Yep, no probs with owning that at all - and as no one else in politics thinks that they can get up each day and face what TM does, until a better person shows up, I'm quite happy with what she's doing so far.

If I had been her advisor at the very beginning, I'd have said to her that she should address the nation and say: 'Guess what - none of the Leave MPs ever bothered their arses coming up with a viable plan. I'm going to give them one year to do so, and then we will put what they have come up with to you, the public, and if you're happy with the trade deals that they said were the easiest thing in history, then we will go.
And I would never have triggered Article 50 with nothing in place against the explicit advice of my most senior civil servant.
She may not be the most at fault, but she still should carry quite a lot of the blame. She's handled the whole thing appallingly.

Jedijim I agree with you.

Yeah, its not because leaving is disastrous for the economy and the GFA, its because the silly politicians aren't doing the leaving nicely.

Oh dear, Leavers, wake up.

Doesn't anyone remember that TM only triggered A50 after a lot of pressure to do so from the EU?

Selective memory or what?

And many Leave voters I know thought it wouldn't happen, but if it did, it would be a maelstrom (ok, shitshow, but that was a term from then, not now).

The EU was past it's sell by date and I bid it adieu, why does that mean anything else? Why does that mean I'm xenophobic, racist, small-minded and ignorant? It doesn't, but I'm sure I'll be told why I am.

I don't recall any pressure from EU. I recall saying ARE YOU SURE?? a million times. I refute that there was any pressure from EU to invoke A50.

Yeah I don’t know what you are talking about, hate.

Eu leaders weren’t pressurising her afaik

I recall Ivan Rogers saying to her repeatedly that once she triggered Article 50, then all the power would be in the hands of the EU.
No, I don't remember the EU exerting especial pressure on her to trigger Article 50. They have consistently wanted a clear sense of direction from the UK, which they have never got.
But even if the EU had pressured May to trigger Article 50, she still didn't have to. She should have held firm, as her most senior civil servant advised her to.

"But that is what happened"

Yes and it's not a surprise. That's the whole point. It was clear there was no plan, it was obvious they (the leave campaign) didn't know what they were going to do.

Blaming the politicians and the civil servants for and entirely foreseeable fiasco is not their fault it is the fault of the people who voted for it.

You are 'bored' with the term shit show. How tedious that you are bored. The country is being royally screwed over and you are bored. The economy will tank and the poor will continue to suffer and you are bored by the expression. That just about sums up leaver arguments.

The country is in a total fucking mess but I am bored by this expression. Yep that's what matters.

Pressure by EU link (you have to search as it's been buried by the sands of time):

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/08/donald-tusk-theresa-may-article-50-brexit-negotiations-eu

The EU wasn’t willing to reform. When David Cameron went off to Europe to ask for changes they told him to do one. It’s a political system that needed change, but was unwilling to do so.
There’s a big flaw in the whole Brexit and racist argument. Think about it, we can put limits on skilled Asian and Black migrants from non EU countries coming here who are predominately Asian or black, but have no limits on EU migrants, who are predominantly white.

I'm not complaining about it though mouse you are. Everything else is pretty much as expected. I'm just bored with the expression "shit show", not the actual 'show'. It's only pedantic.

There must be 50 articles we could link to from EU leaders & diplomats saying "YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS" and "PLEASE DON'T GO", though.

I can't accept that 'Bloody Difficult Woman' reacted much to any pressure from EU to trigger A50. BDW felt compelled to trigger due to the Referendum zealots & desire to maintain party unity, not because of anything EU said.

I voted out. You can all crow as much as you want. Ignore the electorate a your peril. This is going to end badly.

So, she triggered it nearly a year after the Referendum? Within a 2 year period to do so.? When would you rather she did it? Was there anything else concrete that the UK Electorate were doing besides arguing with each other?

Halfway through a set period is a good negotiation stance to start from.

And of course there wasn't A Plan - because no one thought it would really happen - but it did. So, can't we just get on with it.
Isn't that what we tell our kids when things don't go their way or something unfair happens?

The thing is @Imissgmichael I don't want to be right. I want leavers to come up with 3 good reasons and make sense. I don't want the country to be in a mess. I don't want to crow, I want to be wrong.

Unfortunately, it seems remainers were and it is a total mess.

Imissgmichael

I voted out.

Oh well done you and the others who landed us with this mess. How do you propose to put it right? What is your clever plan?

When you start to knock an ediface down, or a concrete tower block, or something that isn't built according to it's foundations and that will eventually fall over, you're going to make a mess.

That you clean up and hopefully reuse anything to make new edifaces. Or offer anything to others that they can use.

I agree. She's not my favourite but she's remained strong throughout this which must not have been easy.

If that Jacob Reece Smug ever becomes PM I'm leaving the UK.

Mousse I don’t give a toss. The EU have never cared about the U.K. The way negotiations have gone has proved this. Stand up bend down and hold your ankles, that’s how the EU wants the U.K.