The whole shit show can hardly be blamed on Theresa May can it

[dawnacorns]

I'm hardly her number one fan but I can't see how getting rid of her is the answer. They just don't seem to know what they're doing. It's an absolute mess whichever way you look at it.

Im surprised its took so long for people to have my opinion! I have never envied her position

Of course it isn’t her fault.

I’m not even sure it can be blamed on Cabinet or Parliament failing to play nicely together.

The first problem is that the country itself is so deeply divided. If polls had shown a very big swing to Remain in the last 18 months I am not sure we would be where we are. But they haven’t - a few people have moved from Leave to Remain but in general polls show that most people are more entrenched in their position than ever. While this is the case, it is that much harder for the Government or MPs to stop the Brexit train rolling.

Second problem is that the EU really is like Hotel California. Once you are in there’s no way out. As somebody said, it’s like trying to take eggs out of a cake after it’s been baked. Anyone who claims (like Keir Starmer or the likes of Gove and Leadsom) that there’s some lovely fluffy deal reachable that keeps all the good stuff (workers rights, frictionless trade, open Irish border) and conveniently magics away all the bad (fishing quotas, corrupt European bureaucracy, huge bill to Brussels) is away with the fairies. It cannot happen.

Completely agree OP. Don't see anyone coming up with a solution. They all seem to be more worried about their political career then what might happen to the country. I started to admire the PM. She has taken on a impossible task.

She's bloody well resilient and calm. I respect her wholeheartedly
It's the leavers who caused this.
No matter who it was itd be a mess.

I absolutely agree, David bloody Cameron has a lot to answer for, yellow bellied twat! Let’s just get this sorry shit storm over with and let the Women do her job.

Leavers can try and back away from all responsibility but I wonder what they would say about anyone who voted Remain if Remain had won by the same margin.
This is happening because people voted Leave.

How did we manage before we were in the EU

The world has indeed changed since 1973. Trading with the eu is critical to us, we cannot become an isolated island. If we suffer high tariffs then our cost of living will hugely increase, not least in our food shop or indeed our medication. We would all suffer and hugely and for some considerable time. Our currency and likely our economy would crash.

We woild be fucked. We cannot pretend the world is as it was in the late sixties, it simply isn't.

I agree the whole mess is not her fault. Cameron is more to blame than her. He chose to sacrifice the country to save the Tory Party. But May is also very much to blame. Although she is a decent, honourable person she has poor poitical judgement. After the referendum she should have reached out to both Leavers and Remainers by saying that she would honour the outcome of the referendum but also go for a very soft Brexit - a Norway type deal. Instead she introduced her ridiculous red lines to appease the extreme Brexiteers, and to keep her party united. Now we are in this appalling situation in which Parliament will probably reject a deal that Europe will not change. What happens then? I pray for a second referendum.

political judgement

Ah, now opposing Brexit is unpatriotic. Gotcha.

There are deffo ways out of EU.
But none of them are as good as being in EU.
There's no way to maintain frictionless border in Ireland while DUP holds Tories hostage.

A staged exit plan that was expected to last up to 25 yrs would have worked. Brexiters are too impatient & paranoid for that.

Stickystick
Of course the UK can leave the EU, no problem at all.
What the EU are saying is that you can't take the carpet, curtains and the drinks cabinet.
As the UK is not self sufficient in food, it needs a deal with someone. By definition if the UK is out of the EU, trade deals WILL be worse.
If the deal proposed by the EU is not good enough, fine say goodbye and leave and make 'better' deals elsewhere.
Shame that most of the likely 'other' candidates are not falling over themselves to deal with the UK (although it legally can't until it leaves the EU).

Yes, the worst of this shit IS Theresa's fault.

Whatever you think of Trump he would have sorted Europe out.

"We were fine before the EU"

I love this one. Can we name other things we were "fine" without, or which have changed hugely, 40-50 years ago, and ask people to volunteer to give them up?

The Internet, obviously.
Mobile telephones.
Central heating.
Indoor toilets.
Television.
Reliable cars.
Medical treatments.
Foreign travel.

Etc
Etc...

Theresa had every opportunity to delay triggering A50 until she had done a proper risk assessment. If she had listened to experts rather than politicians she would have discovered it IS difficult to unpick 40 years of laws and regulations that affect every part of everybodys lives
but it would be possible in say 10 years.
Had she made the assessment she could have presented it to the country and said here are your choices what do you want.

@ClairefromMergersAcquisitions you have hit the nail firmly on the head

I absolutely respect her resilience and willingness to steer the ship at this time. There is no winning this one.

I'm a staunch remainer, but i think one of the Brexit bunch should have been appointed instead of TM. All the Leavers will just say it's a crap deal because she never believed in it, and has been trying to sabotage it all along. If a Leaver had been in charge then people would accept that it's this deal or nothing.

I think she is doing the best that she can.
Cameron was a complete idiot for allowing this to happen.

So I thought May had achieved the impossible - immigration controls and free trade - this is the combo the EU were refusing to consider for a long time...I thought that was what leavers mostly wanted - control over immigration?
The Brexiteers are arrogant fools who have some very outdated notions of Britannia rules the waves and do not want to answer to Johnny Foreigner - and this feeling is so extreme that they feel even negotiating with the EU is beneath them - David Davis was very obvious in his contempt for negotiating with the EU - he achieved bugger all. The Brexiteers have "issues" and their extreme behaviour is all about them but it's not good for any of us.... "Fuck business" isn't that what they said - given the Tories are supposedly the party for business and the Tory Brexiteers apparently don't give a shit about business - what do they give a shit about? - because it certainly isn't about looking after the average uneducated poor leave voter - they have enjoyed fucking them over with Universal Credit! How do these people have a following - who is following them - stupid turkeys?

I agree with previous posters, not a huge fan of hers but the alternatives are much worse and I highly doubt they’d do a better job. The EU would be pushing back no matter who was in charge.

I blame Cameron for calling the referendum in the first place!

Now the deal's here I fully understand what Brexit really means.
Why these idiots are blocking the deal I have no idea.

Hearing her bombarded with hostile questions for three hours the other day, I did start to feel sorry for her. She is in an impossible position.

But then I remembered that, as an educated young woman, she looked at the Conservative Party and thought 'these are the people I want to work with'. She then did really horrific things in the Home Office, forcing elderly Windrush immigrants to return to countries they'd left when tiny children, and several of them died there.

So no, weighing everything up, I don't feel sorry for her.

Whatever you think of Trump he would have sorted Europe out.
I honestly find it mind boggling that anyone could hold this opinion.

Interesting to read all the posts. I agree with pp that it's not a case of going back to pre EU times. We haven't got a time machine. Things have moved on.

I agree MeOldChina that maybe they should have let a remainer deal with it for that reason. On the other hand they would potentially have (or might do still) completely wreck our country, just for their own ego and right wing pigheadedness.

People must be looking at us as a country thinking WTF. As for the Labour Party, they have also let the country down badly by doing nothing. It does seem like any decent politician is lying low or doesn't exist. Goes to really show up how self serving they all actually are.

I don't feel sorry for her either duffle, but I admire her for hanging in there when people are trying to make her the scapegoat. I think its cowardly in the extreme of the brexiteers to try to blame her when it is their fault