The whole shit show can hardly be blamed on Theresa May can it

[dawnacorns]

I'm hardly her number one fan but I can't see how getting rid of her is the answer. They just don't seem to know what they're doing. It's an absolute mess whichever way you look at it.

As an expat living in mainland Europe, Brexit is bloody terrifying, my life and partner are here, and I have no idea what will happen, it's the most stupid thing the stupid Tories have ever done. Pandering to right wing idiots fed crap by Russian spam accounts and the likes of Garage, Johnson and that stuffed shirt from the 1930s. It's a real shitshow.

Absolutely agree with ‘youbetterWORK’. I’m not a Tory but I think she has done extremely well with a load of right Idiots behind her. It’s a poison chalice! None of them want to take over. I have long thought this. Do yourself a favour Theresa, jack it in, let the bastards get on with it, let’s see what a mess they make! And if anyone is to blame here it’s Cameron, for calling the referendum in the first place.

Hah - Nigel Lawson is also a Europhile who lives in France (and has even applied for French citizenship), but I've not seen anyone say that makes him a Remainer.

She’s in a no-win situation as there is literally no scope for her to negotiate anything.

You can’t throw your toys out of the pram, say you want to leave a club/group, and then have a deciding say on how that club interacts with you in the future. It is for the continuing members of the club to decide how to interact (or not) with the ex-member in the future.

Forget stupid sums of money promised on the sides of buses, to me the fundamental lie of the Leave campaign was to give the impression that Britain would be in a position to negotiate anything after deciding to leave.

I agree. I feel for the poor woman, she must just want to say screw the lot of you, let’s see you do better. That would just leave all
of us in an even bigger mess though so I hope she doesn’t go.

Still trying to get my head around the Corbyn / Macdonnell defenders.
Those two have ALWAYS wanted Brexit.
Corbyn voted against the EU every time he got a chance for decades.
He voted against his own party whip hundreds of times
and now he expects others to be loyal to him

She has the impossible task of trying to please absolutely everyone which will never happen. I do believe she's the woman for the job and I blame anyone that voted to Leave for the shit we're in, not the PM for having it forced on her

I am in agreement with so many comments on this topic. Cameron, I am sorry to say messed up the original negotiations and did not really try hard enough to gain really modest concessions from the EU. He promised he would stand by the result of the referendum …. and then promptly resigned! I cannot comment on her negotiating skills or those of her team, yes she may have been too accommodating in the early stages but you can see that she is trying to make the best of a bad job, trying to placate all sides and think of the future of the UK. I do feel that the EU are intent on punishing the UK for having the temerity to want to" go it alone", again if they had given some ground to Cameron I doubt we would be in this situation now. I feel incredibly sorry for her and have noted MN that this seems to be a female support issue as DH absolutely hates her, which cause some rather heated arguments to say the least!

I don't think it's a female thing, my husband thinks she's doing a decent job, and has just said, "as politicians go, I think she's trying to do her best for the U.K. ".

If the Brexiteers lose the (potential) no confidence vote, do you think they'll all shrug and get behind the deal because they lost and should get over it?

Can I trade your Brexit sh*tshow for my f-head of a US president?

Great thread.
Incredible how these self centred MPs repeatedly put their own demands ahead of the needs of the country.The Tory party should be very ashamed - if Labour wasn't such a shit show they would be for ever unelectable after this. May is doing as well as anyone could with this toxic deal.
We are such an international embarrassment.

Poor Baxtermum. I see he is off to the California fires after his awful tweets about them when they started. Not really sure we'd want to do a swap

What gets me is how these priveleged men act like they’re in the house of cards when it’s so pedestrian

God knows where that would leave us, Baxtermum! Makes me more than ever appreciate the PM. Again, I am not a Tory! Really confusing, I am coming over all unnecessary.

How did we manage before we were in the EU? Ok I think! Surely people should be a little patriotic, & have some faith in the British people as a whole, and stop all this squabbling. Theresa May has a position of her own making by trying to please remainers, & leavers, & calling a general election where she reduced her majority too. We are supposed to be a democracy and there was a result, so whatever view is held the result should be accepted and ministers should work towards what the people voted for. The EU are not exactly being very honourable in the manner in which they are trying to impose unreasonable terms for the UK to accept. This makes puts her in an untenable position, as Cameron probably realised when he made his escape at a run. All politicians are in the job for their own benefit, & if their lips are moving it is usually not the truth coming out of their mouths. My local MP Andrew Griffiths has recently had all the saga of sext texting so had to resign as Business secretary, & waiting to find out what the Conservatives are going to do about him staying in the party. Enough said.

I feel incredibly sorry for her. She has no one bar her husband to lean on. I think she has bigger balls that any male in government right now. But no matter what she does it will be wrong.
Her biggest mistake was to trigger Article 50 as the timetable was to too tight. Much more legwork and deal brokering should have gone on prior to the triggering.
I also personally believe we should remain and would love another referendum but it’s not going to happen.
She is the best we have to lead us through what’s left of the process. I wish her well x

I admire her for having the stamina and nerves to persevere. This was always going to be a sh!tstorm.
It started with lack on clarity on what brexit is? Clouded by half truth and lies on what it could be. So people went to the polls with their (different) views on what Brexit would deliver.
Whatever is delivered, some of the people aren’t going to happy.
It irritates me that the people which instigated this fiasco have retreated or are criticising Theresa May for her attempts to pull this together.

Regardless of politics, I think we should all admire TM for trying to do a job that nobody wants right now. It’s far too easy for us to criticise her, but she’s working hard and trying to achieve something while those awful Etonians have scarpered.
Cameron should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for getting us into this mess.

@football why are you blaming the leavers? David Cameron give this vote to us the public without a backup plan. he was that arrogant he thought everyone would vote remain and boohoo they never maybe this will teach the politicians that they need to think before they do and stop and think you will win. The place is a mess because of Cameron and I would have made him stay to deal with the shit he caused so stop blaming the leavers. I’m sick of hearing it’s there fault it’s the last crap Pm.

I don't have much sympathy for her. Yes, Cameron brought it on but she could have arrived in Downing St as a new broom and said A50 wouldn't be triggered until thorough research and projections etc had been done.

But she loves power and hates immigrants (her record at the Home Office speaks volumes) and she rushed ahead and did it. And now she's hoist by her own petard.

In an old episode of Grange Hill (in the 1980s), a pupil makes a beautifully ironic comment, about the totally inflexible headmistress Mrs McClusky offering a referendum on flexitime for pupils:

"They'll only call a referendum when they're certain they'll get the result they want!"

why are you blaming the leavers?

I thought all Leavers knew precisely what they were voting for and did it all in good faith. Why wouldn't they be to blame? CallMeDave is too, of course.

How did we manage before we were in the EU? Ok I think!

The World has moved on since the 1960's Britain was a pretty austere place for most people, Butlins, basic food, few foreign holidays, long working hours, little employment rights and terrible cars.

As for the EU punishing us, the UK can have frictionless and close trade with the EU but no independent trade policy or it can be arms length and seek out new world trade agreements but then the trade with the EU will be limited and expensive, costing us industries like car manufacturing, Airbus, Seimens etc etc.

UK cannot have both (why then have an EU?) and its amazing that 2 years later folk still can't grasp this very basic fact, including T.May otherwise she would have stuck to her supposed Remain principles.

No, I loathe her. She triggered Article 40 when we weren't ready, with no idea how to extricate ourselves from the EU. She's helped cause this mess.