To ask if anyone in the country is actually happy with the EU withdrawal agreement?

[Bearbehind]

Is anyone pleased with it?

The EU attitude towards the GFA, completely blase to the Peace it created, reinforces my belief that my Leave vote was the right thing to do

On what planet is that the EU’s attitude?

It's on the same Planet that we all live on - the EU attitude should be that they would 'preserve' GFA as much as they could irrespective of the Referendum or anything else, because that would be the best thing to do for the people that live in The ROI and NI. To Keep The Peace.

But instead, the EU are finding as many reasons as they can why they can't do this. If they really 'cared' about the people who share the Island they would have be saying,

"this, this very important thing, the GFA, is too important to be part of the Brexit negotiations."

But big thing that it is, the EU aren't being the 'bigger' person (thing) about this. So I lose respect for it.

Obviously the EU don't want us to Leave and whilst I appreciate that the Institution would make it difficult, I do find it a bit 'below the belt' to use the GFA as a 'sticking point' or indeed as a 'stick' to beat the UK inc NI and also Ireland. It wasn't because of the EU that GFA was reached - in fact the EU were trying to undermine the long-standing existing 'special arrangements' between the ROI and UK prior to the Referendum.

What the actual fuck are you on about? Are you so thoroughly blinded by propaganda that you can be this ignorant about your own country and downright offensive about your neighbour. Brexit potentially fucks over Ireland and it puts the whole NI Peace Process in danger. The EU has never claimed to be the architects of the Peace Process but while Ireland was has been desperately trying to ensure that part of the UK doesn't risk returning to conflict, the UK was expecting us to put up and shut up. While the EU had our backs. Which is what it should do.

'Below the belt is fucking over nearly 2 million of your own citizens and acting as if their very real lives and need to live in peace is an irritating inconvenience to your grand delusion. 'Below the Belt' is the appalling attempts to bully Ireland that members of your government has tried to engage in. 'Below the Belt' is this sort of whining, petulant, disbelieving, deeply uneducated nonsense because this time around the bullying attempts aren't working.

You clearly haven't a clue about the reality of what you are talking spouting off about. But you need to get a clue. This is what Ireland wants. What Ireland has insisted on. It is the will of our people. And our will, the will of continuing EU citizens is what the EU has a duty to prioritise and, boy, have they. So get that clue because everything has changed now. Ireland is no longer a nation that can be ignored and then relied on to roll over on demand. We're the bigger power now, by an incredibly significant margin and the kind of BS you've posted about us isn't going to fly.

But instead, the EU are finding as many reasons as they can why they can't do this. If they really 'cared' about the people who share the Island they would have be saying, "this, this very important thing, the GFA, is too important to be part of the Brexit negotiations."

Aye and if air traffic controllers cared about the aeroplane who's engines are failing they'd be saying, "this, this very important thing, the aeroplane, is too important to be part of concerns about gravity." That's how very, very, very, very, very inanely stupid your grasp on the situation is. The British border in Ireland is absolutely fucking central to Brexit negotiations. In many ways it's the absolute first and most important part. The fact that this blindingly, blindingly obvious fact escapes you is mind-boggling. How can you be this unable to grasp this most very basic of facts? How?

Trance I'll try and read your post later - I'm sure it had many good points - but frankly starting your post with "what the fuck are you on about" doesn't instill me with either desire to read further nor the immediate impression that you have any previous knowledge of what I'm actually posting about.

But rant on, it is a public forum after all and, unlike the EU (or obsessive exDP), it's easy to Leave.

And trance given your knowledge of the Aviation Industry please do describe how EU membership has improved upon the standards that the CAA already had?

What you can't grasp Trance is my point that it should be 'outside' of Brexit negotiations, not central to them.

I'm too nice to call you stupid, but you are posting a bit like you are a stupid person. And so I have insulted you back - which I think is stupid of me to trade insults with you.

In the end it gets no one anywhere.

"what the fuck are you on about" doesn't instill me with either desire to read further nor the immediate impression that you have any previous knowledge of what I'm actually posting about.

The deeply offensive, unbelievably ignorant, actually hurtful garbage you spouted about what's going on in my country was worthy of no less. Considering the magnitude of the awfulness of what you posted, I was restrained beyond belief. You really do need to understand that you don't have the impunity to spout off about other people's lives like you did without being called out on it. Ignore it all you want but don't be surprised that your unwillingness to stop being ignorant about your neighbours is no longer tolerated by those neighbours.

And trance given your knowledge of the Aviation Industry please do describe how EU membership has improved upon the standards that the CAA already had?
Aww man, I know there is joke in there somewhere about aviation and points flying right over your head but I'm too tired to form it properly. Regardless, the point is that it's an analogy to show up how utterly stupid and divorced from reality your comment is. You can't just decide to ignore an integral factor, perhaps the most integral factor to a problem just because you want to. It doesn't work that way. The British border in Ireland has to be a major part of Brexit negotiations in the same way that the reality of gravity needs to be considered and dealt with in aviation, no matter how much you might wish otherwise.

As a remainer, I don’t like the deal - I’ve read the bits applicable to my profession. As a pp said, we’ve still got lots of obligations but have lost our ability to lead and influence the policies. And no matter what the Brexiters think, we did lead the rest of Europe in many areas.

The only think that stops me thinking fuck it, let’s just crash out, is the NI situation. The idea that leavers can suck up the economic consequences is personally quite appealing as DH and me have paid off the mortgage so will still have a roof over our head come what may. However, having narrowly avoided getting blown up by the IRA twice in my life, I take a small interest and would not wish anything that would lead to the Troubles returning.

The Republic of Ireland can hold its head up high.

No bullying, no hissy fits, no insults, just facts.

It may all come to nought in the end, but I personally think ROI handled it all with dignity. And the PM Varadker is in a minority Government too.

All hands on deck. Gotta love it.

It's the EU that doesn't give a shit about the NI/ROI Border, the UK does give a shit, whatever political colour or referendum vote that a UK person sticks to their 'mast' - they give a shit.

Let's say the UK got involved with Alsace-Lorraine - which bits are French, which are German - the people of Alsace-Loraine would have every right to tell us to Butt Out. Or maybe they don't have that right after all.

I could probably check up on a few European regions that might also have a point - Butt Out UK - nothing to do with you.

If you call that "arrogant" of me, wanting to Butt Out of Alsace-Lorraine, Catalonia etc - we have a new meaning of 'arrogance".

Next.....

I’m a remainder who works in an industry which could be severely affected by no deal.

I’m not happy with May’s deal at all. The only outcome with which I would be happy is continuing membership of the EU. Failing that, Norway would be the least-worst option.

What you can't grasp Trance is my point that it should be 'outside' of Brexit negotiations, not central to them.

And you point is stupid. It can't be outside Brexit negotiations, it's one of the, if not the most, important part of the negotiations. You clearly can't grasp that very, very basic fact. And if I'm posting like a 'stupid person' it's because it's actually unbelievable that anyone can't understand that. 'Mind-boggling' was the specific term I used, my mind is boggled by the utter ignorance of your statement. It's so very, very, very, very stupid that it's hard to make my brain understand how the hell anyone could think it's a reasonable comment.

And it's not just stupid, it's offensive. Deeply, deeply offensive. Understand that. It is offensive to Irish people, especially those in Ulster and northern Leinster. You voted on something so important without thinking of the very, very real lives you would disrupt. You really think that Brexit negotiations are somehow separate to them. They aren't. Those are the lives you fucked with most and you refuse to even understand that most obvious of points. It's nasty. It's heart-breaking. It's hateful. If I'm posting like a stupid person, which I well might be, it's because of how riled up I am by this display of utter, selfish, wilful, ignorance. It's just sad.

Oops, I left out northern Connaught which also has a British border. Sorry Sligo.

Ok trance everyone is entitled to their opinion and at least we should be able to agree that we disagree.

I will maintain my position that the EU should Butt Out and leave the 'affected' people to work it out and you can maintain yours that the border between The ROI and NI is absolutely central to the entirety of all Brexit negotiations.

I wish you well.

It's the EU that doesn't give a shit about the NI/ROI Border, the UK does give a shit, That would be almost funny, if the whole border question wasn't such a clusterfuck. The EU has set the Irish border as their key area of concern since Day 1 of negotiations. ImYiu can look at just about any press conference and hear them say that. It is the UK government who agreed, in writing last December that they would guarantee no hard border in Ireland before immediately coming back and saying they made it all up and they might not guarantee that at all. Classic David Davis negotiating style so that nobody can trust a word you say.

Are you Karen Bradley, the NI sec who didn't understand that people in Northern Ireland vote along sectarian lines? You seem to have a similar grasp of the situation.

Let's say the UK got involved with Alsace-Lorraine - which bits are French, which are German - the people of Alsace-Loraine would have every right to tell us to Butt Out.

Alsace Lorraine is a PERFECT example of how the EU has been beneficial! There were 3 wars within 80 years pretty much fought about those border regions - two of which went global. The EU was created precisely so that for example France and Germany wouldn't be at each other's throats over the fucking Alsace Lorraine again.
Preserving the GFA is NOT about individual foreign countries interfering with the UK, it's about the EU doing what sits at the core of its mission: keeping peace within its borders.

And I'm sorry that you feel I don't care and what you live isn't important to me because I would like the UK to leave the EU, because that is very far from the truth, I really do care about it. That is why I really do think that the EU should leave it alone.

My own experience is of Noraid, the USA connection, that really fuelled the fires. The US Govt clamping down on Noraid, was more important in reaching GFA than anything the EU did.

And I don't want the UK to fuck that up because I don't want to be with them anymore.

Honestly, reading such comments just after the 100th anniversary of the Armistice seriously, seriously annoys me.

Q and so, now the people of Europe won't fight over A-L, does that mean we still have to stick around to make sure they don't? Are they really the best place to go for peace-keeping advice, seeing as they've just learned how? And now they want to make an Army, because they want to keep Peace or make Power then War?

Answers on a postcard - looks like deliveries within the EU will be ok for awhile so no probs with that.

My point isn't about how the EU allows border regions like NI enough flexibility to accommodate coexisting communities in peace. If you put up walls again and force people to choose between identities you'll run against the same old issues again and again.

My point IS ( not isn't)

Also hate, you mentioned Catalunya upthread. That's entirely an issue within a sovereign state. The EU has never supported independence movements within sovereign member states. That's why NI is different from Scotland or Catalunya.