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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be upset with this dinner lady?

138 replies

KitKatCHA · 13/11/2018 22:06

Pretty sure INBU but making sure. Today my son was a few minutes late getting to the dinner hall as he was finishing up his work with his class teacher. He got to the dinner hall and the dinner lady told him his year group had already gone in then said to him, 'are you stupid'

My son is 8 and had SN, he is incapable of lying and I believe him 100%. I have told the headteacher and have a meeting tomorrow to discuss in further detail. DS is really upset by this, he struggles with feelings of inadequacy due to his additional needs. I want to escalate this is high as possible, what should I be saying to the headteacher tomorrow?

OP posts:
Miscible · 14/11/2018 18:24

The governors may well be involved if the head decides to start a disciplinary process, or if there are a number of complaints that they may have to deal with. She probably just intends to talk to someone like the Chair about it.

I don't see what's unprofessional about saying that she doesn't need to hear evidence from the children nearby if she accepts what OP's child says.

Haggisfish · 14/11/2018 19:19

I’m glad you’ve had a positive outcome op.

2Ollts · 14/11/2018 19:29

ReverseTheFerret Not all dinner ladies are older, low-skilled local women. I know some who are degree educated and who have chosen this role as it fits in with their children.

ReverseTheFerret · 14/11/2018 20:00

Aaaah so you ARE just spoiling for someone to have a fight with. Picked the wrong person - I ain't playing tonight sweetheart.

SuburbanRhonda · 14/11/2018 20:03

I don't see what's unprofessional about saying that she doesn't need to hear evidence from the children nearby if she accepts what OP's child says.

Staff in good schools always hear both sides - it’s the only fair way to make a judgement on how to deal with a situation like this.

And you missed the but where the OP claims the head said, to her, a parent, that:

she knows what the dinner lady is like

That is simply outrageous.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/11/2018 21:32

I don't see what's unprofessional about saying that she doesn't need to hear evidence from the children nearby if she accepts what OP's child says.

Because if the HT takes this to the governors without fully investigating it, any claims of wrong doing will be laughed out of the meeting as the HT hasn't followed procedures and it makes any previous claims and investigations a nonsense.

Also if the head follows it up in this way and the dinner lady leaves, it leaves the school open for claims of wrongful dismissal.

MonsterTequila · 14/11/2018 21:57

Why are people more outraged at the HT saying she knows what the dinner lady is like than a dinner lady calling a child with sen stupid? Smh 🤦‍♀️

SuburbanRhonda · 14/11/2018 22:04

Why are people more outraged at the HT saying she knows what the dinner lady is like than a dinner lady calling a child with sen stupid?

Where has anyone said that though?

And people can be shocked at more than one thing at once, so I’m told.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/11/2018 22:16

MonsterTequila

If the HT has said this and is doing this is the way that she is saying she will the dinner lady will be able to continue doing this. So shake your head all you like.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/11/2018 22:21

should be

she will, the dinner

Lizzie48 · 14/11/2018 22:27

@BoneyBackJefferson

I'm sorry, but your post still doesn't make sense.

But I agree that there should be some investigation, otherwise the dinner lady will go on upsetting SEN pupils, perhaps without realising it.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 14/11/2018 22:49

The council employs the dinnerlady though obviously the HT will be in charge of discipline

So i still don't understand what the governors have to do with it

Anyway...hope it gets resolved OP

SuburbanRhonda · 14/11/2018 22:52

The LA employs midday supervisors but their line manager is a member of school staff. In our school it’s the deputy head.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 14/11/2018 23:12

Isnt that what i just said suburban

Sorry if i wasnt clear

Still dont see what the governors have to do with disciplining or sacking a dinnerlady

blue25 · 14/11/2018 23:20

I'm sure none of us would like our children called stupid, whether or not they have SEN. Just go in and talk to the Head, what other advice are you expecting?

LittleBookofCalm · 15/11/2018 06:39

The dinner lady will need retraining on her language, she may well call her own friends and relatives stupid, but she must be more aware how she talks to the children at school.

StingsandThings · 15/11/2018 06:47

Glad you had a good outcome OP

BoneyBackJefferson · 15/11/2018 07:14

Lizzie48

It was very poorly written.

If the HT doesn't follow procedure then the governors or whoever employs her will not be able to take any action.

The dinner lady also has rights laid out in employment policies and one of them will be a proper investigation of the incident.

Otherwise she could either keep her job or sue her employers.

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 15/11/2018 07:27

The LA employs midday supervisors but their line manager is a member of school staff. In our school it’s the deputy head.

Our dinner ladies (Midday Supervisors) are employed by the school. Our office manager is the line manager.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2018 08:06

Sorry, I thought it was clear I was talking about our school. Obviously other schools may have a different arrangement.

I only brought this up in the first place because a PP mistakenly described the pupils as “clients” of the MDS.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 15/11/2018 08:23

suburban

Ive still not explained properly obviously

I agree with you....its how the school here works

Dinner lady employed by LA, head teacher their line manager who can tell em off or sack em

BUT (and I obviously missed the governors bit) No need for governor involvement unless parent has involved themin which case theyll want to know what has happened or its REALLY bad and the BBc has picked it up therefore being the school into 'disrepute'

But i think we are basically agreeing Smile

bananasandwicheseveryday · 15/11/2018 08:24

If it's an Academy, the MDAs are employed by the academy via the school. I am a governor and have sat on several disciplinary panels. The HT is obliged to carry out a full investigation if she is intending disciplinary action. And that includes speaking to witnesses such as any children who may have heard what was said. Failure to do so could mean that either the governors send her away to carry out an investigation - tricky the longer after the incident, especially if children were the only witnesses, or, if the mda loses her job, she could win an appeal or tribunal.
So, I would be wondering whether HT has told you this to keep you quiet, because I'd be surprised if they are so unaware of procedure, especially as they will have access to either LA HR advice, kr academy HR provider for advice.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2018 09:46

Yes I think we are, rufus Smile

And we wouldn’t trouble the governors with this either. They would have good reason to worry about how the school is being run if we called them in to deal with something like this.

Lizzie48 · 15/11/2018 09:58

Thank you for clarifying, @BoneyBackJefferson your post is spot on. The only reason I can think if why the HT might be justified in involving the governors would be if she's already had a written warning. According to the OP, she was told that this dinner lady has a history for this sort of incident.

Even in such a scenario, though, I would have thought an investigation would be required in order to follow proper procedure. (My DH is a union rep with Unison, I think I'll ask him about this later.)

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2018 10:13

According to the OP, she was told that this dinner lady has a history for this sort of incident.

This is the bit that some of us who work in schools are horrified by. If the MDS got wind of it and involved her union, they could hang the head out to dry for breach of confidentiality. And so they should.

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