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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To believe there is no such thing as a female penis?

542 replies

Shriek · 10/11/2018 15:15

Ppl with penis raping, yet called women.
WTAF! Gangs of ppl with penis stamping on man's head, referred to as 'women'
Wtf is going on, has the world gone mad?

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Vicky1990 · 15/11/2018 20:50

Also a biological correct woman, ie with a vagina can call himself a man and go about as a man.
One of these MEN was jailed recently for having sex using a strap on with another woman by deception.
Take care out there.

Shriek · 15/11/2018 20:57

Oh no Sad
I noted the poll results with interest, especially at the views of the 18-25s. They are being groomed via the media to accept a male can have a female penis.

What two groups were plotted on that chart?

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Shriek · 15/11/2018 20:58

Ignore! I've checked it again! I can see it now

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Shriek · 15/11/2018 21:03

The results are heavily medically influenced!
The one about doctors being removed from the process, and the cervical smear produced the highest no responses.
I am also shocked that so few, only 52% disagree that a be-penis'd man should be called a woman.
Oh, and there's a lot who seem to not know, and must be confused by the whole issue.

Identifying a need for some education around this.
How brilliant that fairplayforwomen have done this!!
More like this needed to voice women's safety issues louf and clear

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Talkinpeece · 15/11/2018 21:16

A person born a man who has full sex change surgery has the right to call themselves a woman.

A person with a penis is a man.

They should not be allowed into female sporting competitions.
They should not be allowed into female prisons
they should NEVER be counted as woman of the year

Bruce / Caitlin Jenner is still a man with a penis.

Shriek · 15/11/2018 21:32

Oh what!? Yes I had just been wondering about him. Thank you for that.

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Shriek · 15/11/2018 21:33

A man with a penis is Woman of the year get out the cab Comic relief

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CaveMum · 15/11/2018 22:59

I’ve posted this on the Conic Relief thread too:

If people are looking for somewhere else to donate, can I suggest you go to Amazon and in the Wishlist section search for Women’s Aid. It will bring you up a list of WA shelters that have a registered Wish List and you can look for one local to you.

The Wish Lists are usually items like toys for children, crockery, bed covers, etc. You can choose something within your budget and it will be delivered direct to the shelter.

There are of course other charities you can search for in the Wish Lists but I think refuges are a good place to start in this context.

Shriek · 15/11/2018 23:17

Comic Relief - female penis - maybe it's a joke really?!!!
Good post on their website!!! I want to do that for all the homeless women and DC at Christmas, no-one deserves that life.

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lassupthebrew · 16/11/2018 17:12

Talkinnpeece - I thank you for the sentiments above. I agree with you on the obvious facts that women do not have penises.

But with regards to transsexuals, as you are describing in your post, we mostly realise 'sex change surgery' does not actually change sex.

It and hormones do modify our biology and physiology but do not change it as sex change implies. Rather they allow for the living of a reasonable life and minimise distress to others that presence of any male physiology inevitably can cause.

However, whilst we live socially as women and in some cases have done so for many years we would not 'call ourselves women' - as you put it - but often are accepted as such in social circumstances and many day to day situations where that is reasonable.

However, we also accept the exemptions built into the law and many of us would not seek advantage in situations where our physiology might still cause problems - such as in sport - or stand for an all woman's short list.

These exist (hopefully temporarily) to correct an historical mismatch in society and so should involve natal women correcting that edge. Transsexuals mostly see how entering would blur those lines and damage the impact of an all women short list.

Any trans person standing for such a post, in my view, surgery or not, would be doing so primarily to seek personal validation and not be considering the much bigger picture.

Perhaps you have to have lived most of your life as a woman and not a man to see why that matters.

The right thing to do would be for the trans person to stand as a trans person for a position already fairly contested by men and women. Success then would send the right message socially and not risk putting yourself above women in an already unfair fight.

Talkinpeece · 16/11/2018 17:22

lassup
I have a good friend who had her sex change op at 18. I have never known her as other than a woman although I know her original name. She makes no attempt to hide it because its who she was for the first third of her life.

I have a mahoosive issue with the folks who want to retain the body of a man while invading women's spaces.

lassupthebrew · 16/11/2018 17:56

I agree with you. I am in a similar position transitioning very young long ago. In those days you had to understand you were not changing sex via the surgery or you did not get any further into the lengthy gatekeeping (years of trying out various non invasive ways forward with surgery the last option, not the first).

We seem to have gone way too far in the other direction to try to please those who do not have what they recognise as a medical condition but are just expressing a lifestyle change.

We need some of that realism back and the effort needed to transition. Just having none at all and removing psychiatric assessment for reasons has created a needy entitled generation that just want to identify into 'femaleness' because they say so. Not out of any kind of medically established necessity.

I cannot believe Theresa May argues that being trans is a choice not a medical matter. Not if you have gender dysphoria it isn't, which is happily rare.

But the answer is not throw the gates open and let anyone in and self medicate off the internet. Even children. That is creating a major social crisis for the next decade or so when some of those kids wake up and realise they transitioned unwisely but may then have no way back.

How ministers have got so short sighted on the possible consequences of making transition socially 'normal' rather than as it really ought to be a very uncommon event only if medically defined I cannot fathom.

It is not a cakewalk for the transitioner or those around them. And if it becomes that normal society faces massive changes in how it lives. So this is not only a concern of a few supposedly disadvantaged individuals.

Talkinpeece · 16/11/2018 17:59

The drugs they are giving kids to delay puberty are the same chemical castration that Alan Turing killed himself to avoid.

What ARE we doing to children?

lassupthebrew · 16/11/2018 22:21

Creating a nightmare for the next generation.

90% of young adults who went to see doctors claiming they needed to transition medically were deemed to have other issues and deterred.

That was in the past when blockers were science fiction not reality.

Most who desisted were either going through a difficult puberty or were gay and settled into that lifestyle or simply became cross dressers in secret. They were offered appropriate help but not drugs.

Why have we forgotten all those lessons and ignored the data from even a few years ago when blockers were not yet routine. Then a similar number of trans identifying children desisted or reverted to natal gender during puberty.

But hardly any child put on blockers comes off them and desists.

This either means they are very very good at predicting exactly who really are in need of these and who are not - or, more worryingly, that the drugs stop those who used to desist from doing that.

It will be a few years before we learn the consequences of that - in terms of the regret rate of children who transitioned too young and the possible long term effects of the drugs on fertility.

Either way we are experimenting on children and that is not something any conscionable society should do.

Shriek · 16/11/2018 22:37

Can I ask @lassupthebrew where you have power as a group? To bring about change, to get your community voice heard?
I have valued your contribution here, with the expertise at the heart of our discussion.

I am a bit blown away, particularly as I am aware of the 14 who feel too intimidated to speak out, which is a ridiculous and scarey state of affairs.

That you don't identify with the likes of Bruce Jenner.

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lassupthebrew · 17/11/2018 21:32

Transexuals really don't have a group. I met one or two when I was transitioning all those years ago through clinics and kept in touch over the years with one or two, but drifted apart from the others.

After we were signed off by all the doctors and psychiatrists we got on with our lives individually. We had relationships, careers, even adopted kids in some countries though in the UK marriage was not possible in my case until it was too late as my long term fiance died.

We did some pretty diverse things with our lives but you never read about this in the media, of course.

The stories are all the negative ones about the antics of the noisy trans community of today, whereas transsexuals have largely had no community and post transition just reclaimed the life that had long been on hold whilst resolving their dysphoria.

That was more than enough for most of us. We were able to largely forget we were different day to day after having had to live with that awareness all our childhood and now could just finally be ourselves. Having no rights was liberating in many senses (though society accommodated us well enough long before the GRA - things like passports were changed decades ago with medical support).

So there was less desire to form groups and there were only 5000 or so of us in the whole UK so not much scope for a movement.

And no serious interest in pushing for rights until the turn of the Millennium really when a couple of Manchester transsexuals (one male to female, the other female to male) pressed for the GRA. The latter being Stephen Whittle, an equality law professor.

The transsexuals of my era went on to be people like him - I know university lecturers, archaeologists, doctors, musicians, actors and writers after transition. But their stories are rarely told because we have not had a desire to tell them. We did not want to become recognised for being trans. We just wanted to get on with being ourselves.

This is why we are so lost in this current madness where the reverse seems to be true because speaking up is counter intuitive to how we have lived our lives.

There are a few of us on here and Twitter. But the majority are just too scared to speak up as they fear the consequences for them and their families since trans activists can get very angry with transsexuals who challenge their way of wanting to think as they do or to dictate what others should call them or call themselves.

Hence the 14 speaking anonymously on that blog who presumably feel it is the only way to say something without the repercussions on others in their lives.

Shriek · 18/11/2018 00:12

Thank you so much for writing that. I really feel for you and such sadness Flowers for the sad passing of your fiancé.

Its really good to hear your voice thank your for speaking out, it is shocking that everyone is feeling so scared. Its so wrong isn't it....Sad

When will someone take notice.

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