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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To believe there is no such thing as a female penis?

542 replies

Shriek · 10/11/2018 15:15

Ppl with penis raping, yet called women.
WTAF! Gangs of ppl with penis stamping on man's head, referred to as 'women'
Wtf is going on, has the world gone mad?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
CaveMum · 12/11/2018 08:39

There’s some suggestion that a lot of the Trans issues are rooted in homophobia - people would rather say their children are trans than admit they could be gay.

In fact a large percentage of teenagers who present as trans ultimately come out as simply gay if watchful waiting is employed rather than leaping straight to hormone therapy.

PtangyangkipperbangOi · 12/11/2018 08:55

@CaveMum you are totally right. For a lot of the world , especially in conservative or old fashioned families many people still view homosexuality as shameful. So children that are suspected to be gay due to effeminacy for example are often labeled as trans as it is easier to be "born in the wrong body" and have puberty frozen and then the child become more effeminate with oestrogen and is then seen as hetero sexual as an adult.

Also, in this country, the UK....parents have lost custody of their child as they did not support them transitioning so they were taken into care. Just think about that. And it is fully documented by Dr. Michele Moore ( my hero, I love her for bravely speaking out despite risking her career and professional reputation and being labeled a TERF). There is info on the video I will link to below. It is 18 minutes long but 100% well worth it but parts may make your toes curl as you peak trans yet again.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 09:18

Very worrying Ptangy, my dd who is 11 who has ASD and learning difficulties sometimes wants to be a man or a boy, but I think really she does not like the pink stereotypes of girls and prefers more masculine clothes. I tell her that you don't have to be a boy/man to wear them, you can wear what you like. I buy the clothes that she likes (superheros, hoodies) and she is happy with that. She goes to a special school and is in a protected environment where they just let her be who she wants that day. I dread that if she was in a mainstream school, she would be told that she was trans and to take hormone suppressants to halt puberty. She is going through puberty, and has just started her periods. That parents can have their children removed if they don't indulge in this government brainwashing nonsense.

CaveMum · 12/11/2018 09:20

Thanks for that Ptang I will watch the video later with interest.

Regarding peak trans, I feel I’m already at “Olympus Mons”, but the more people we can at least get to “Snowdonia”, the better!

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 09:24

I think deep down these loud bulling TRAs usually transwomen, know that they are a bloke, how can they not miss it when they undress and see a dick and balls staring at them. They are trying to convince themselves and us that they are in fact 'real women', and the government is indulging them, it is ludricous. I don't even know if they are transwomen who do have body dysmorphia. They would be desperate to hide any maleness and would not be proudly flaunting their 'lady dick' for all to see on You Tube. Yet the government want you to see them as real women, and are enshrining that in law. Disgusting.

I doubt that this is happening with Transmen (bio women), I don't see it at all. Enshrined in this, is a misogeny to keep women in their place and to put them back into their box, even taking over their sex for themselves. It is worrying.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 09:57

Somebody upthread mentioned that Men that don't want to date transwomen especially those who are intact aren't given the abuse that lesbians are given by these TRAs because they don't want dick. They are lesbians for a reason, because they don't fancy blokes, even though you say you feel like a woman and put on a dress, you are still a bloke with your meat and two veg dangling down. You are in affect a dude with a dress on as the blokes would say.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 09:59

People have the right to date people who they wan't, it is a free world. Lesbian's should have the right to date who they want to without abuse or bigot or transphobe being shouted at them by TRAs. I know if I was a lesbian I would not be sucked in by this, and would date who attracts me, and if you have a dick, no thanks.

lassupthebrew · 12/11/2018 12:52

Aeroflotgirl, there is a huge difference between the social experience of transsexuals - those with dysphoria and have been seeing doctors since childhood and physically alter their bodies as far as possible.

And the transgender activists who often transition late after having lived as men, fathered children and sometimes cross dressed throughout life hiding it from their wives (check out the transwidows thread on Feminism Chat for a frightening and sad education here). They are far less likely to have dysphoria or want to alter their bodies much. Though some seem to get huge breast implants.

The transsexuals blend into society and settle down and DO commonly have long term relationships with men. If they have a GRC they can marry them legally as a woman. That is not uncommon.

The latter tend to be loud and active and aggressive and are those seeking that the GRA be changed. Many are sexually attracted to women as they have all their lives.

As it stands you must be diagnosed as transsexual with dysphoria to get a GRC. That is why only 4910 (and only 3000 or so trans women - the others are trans men) have done this.

And why the rest (estimated up to 500,000) want all those protections scrapped in the name of 'human rights'.

Hence many transsexuals arguing in that blog by 14 of them (transsexual women opposed to self ID) despite them being scared to publicly identify themselves as they are living quiet lives with families.

The transgender activists can and have created real problems for the transsexuals who speak out.

The shame here is the government being coerced into trying to change the law and ignoring who they originally wrote it for. They have not asked the 4910 who have a GRC today. Why?

Fairenuff · 12/11/2018 12:55

Somebody upthread mentioned that Men that don't want to date transwomen especially those who are intact aren't given the abuse that lesbians are given by these TRAs because they don't want dick

TRA's don't abuse men. Only women.

Everyone really needs to get their male friends and family behind this. They need to show the same level of outrage and anger as we do. People only listen to men. Once you get them involved, change will happen. Without them it won't. Because men hold all the power.

Women hold a lot of financial power. They generally make purchases for the family. They often decide where to shop and how much to spend. We can boycott places like Children in Need and Ocado and anyone else who outwardly supports removal of safeguarding for women and children.

Men and money talk. That's how you will get them to listen.

Fairenuff · 12/11/2018 12:58

Think of how much is raised through every school in the country for Children in Need. What if the mums all say, no we don't want to give money to a charity that supports the sterilisation of children. Let's give it to the NSPCC instead (or other suitable charity).

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 13:05

lassupthebrew a poster shared a very interesting article written by a transsexual against the GRA, it was excellent, some of the points were: that it would minimise and trivialise their experiences of somebody with dysmorphia, that they do not deny that they are biologically men, but they want to live peacefully as a woman, and they also shared women's concerns about it.

The TRAs have created lots of problems, for natal women and transsexuals who have gender dysmorphia, who have had to to through the medical route and by officially diagnosed. They are bullying and aggressive, shouting down women's genuine concerns, which are real, and women have a right to be concerned about.

www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/03/a-system-of-gender-self-identification-would-put-women-at-risk

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-are-right-to-have-concerns-over-trans-reforms-5kj5k28sd

NottonightJosepheen · 12/11/2018 13:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NottonightJosepheen · 12/11/2018 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lassupthebrew · 12/11/2018 13:46

Aeroflotgirl. that is very similar to the argument being made on the blog by the 14 transsexuals referenced above.

It is also very similar to my position.

In fact it is a very common with transsexuals who have posted on Mumsnet over the past year or two as I have read quite a few of them doing so. Usually on Feminism Chat pages where threads like this are common.

It is also one that has been made by transsexuals in numbers in recent months in letters and petitions in places such as the Guardian and the Times.

And I personally know of at least 20 holders of a GRC who have filled in the GRA consultation making similar comments to the government, myself included. Being disgusted that the ones they wrote the law about in 2004 (it specifies transsexuals not transgender) were never consulted over changes up front.

We are not confident the government will listen as they seem to have prioritised the desire to support the angry aggression of the trans activists rather than the overlapping concerns of women and transsexuals over the consequences of a free for all and allowing people to self declare sex on their birth certificate.

That is the end game of the trans activists. Currently only two doctors can change this if they agree it should be for medically approved reasons. Hence very few have been altered.

Trans activists want all doctors removed from the equation and believe human beings can choose their own sex from 16 onward.

Obviously nonsense. And dangerous nonsense as it is influencing children to socially transition in huge numbers on the false belief they can do this, which will be very alluring but for many who do not have dysphoria (and figures show most will not) is potentially catastrophic if they are pushed into transition and later regret it.

A major crisis is tragically predictable if we do not get a grip of the escalating levels of child transition - as from past experience nine out of ten of those should not transition and will regret it if they do but might then find it very hard to switch back given the social pressures.

Plus in the past 5 years the number of girls coming out as trans boys has escalated enormously to the extent that the consistent adult transsexual pattern of about 65% trans women and 35% trans men (which has been stable for decades) has more than reversed and far more teenage girls are now saying they are boys than the other way round.

The signs of a social contagion are pretty obvious and the government should never be encouraging it by de-medicalising transition and removing all safeguards currently in place.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 14:09

I totally agree Issupthebrew very good post. I was what has classed as a 'tomboy' back in the 80's, looked masculine, short spiky hair, trousers, shirts. I climbed trees with the boys, and craved a Raleigh burner not a blooming shopping bike Grin, and played with boys toys as I liked them! I was happy being me, that was my version of being a girl, that did not conform to the rigid stereotypes, I was left alone to be who I was. No I would be picked up early on at school and be told that I am a boy really and would need to be treated like one. My parents would be told that I would like to become a boy now, and that if they do not support me, I will be taken away from my family and the parents I love. Scary times. In fact now, I am a natal woman and happy being who I am.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 14:17

Very interesting article www.independent.co.uk/voices/john-lewis-gender-neutrality-trangender-children-medicalisation-lesbian-gay-education-a7946426.html

Those penis packers that Ptang put in her post, aimed at creating a pants package for very young preschool 'transboys' is disturbing. They looked blooming sexual and not for children at all.

lassupthebrew · 12/11/2018 14:40

Yes, that is exactly what seems to be happening. 40/50 years ago children who were GNC were allowed to be themselves. And any decisions on their future had to wait until they were adults. Puberty almost always tipped the balance and only a few who were genuinely gender dysphoric were left after the others adjusted their lives in other ways.

Even with the few who as young adults sought help as their dysphoria had worsened via puberty there were many ways used to try to prevent extreme treatments. Some were given natal sex hormone boosters to try to push them into conformity, Others electro convulsion therapy. Most had extensive psychotherapy.

Very few got beyond all that to the point of still needing to transition. And those that did were at least young adults able to understand the balance between the way the 'cure' of gender reassignment surgery would help them versus the consequences (never having children and no legal recognition post transition - though social accommodations were made decades before the GRA, such as sex altered on passports).

The process of getting to the point of surgery was deliberately made lengthy and difficult so that only those 100% went ahead and psychoanalysis could screen out things such as autism or sexual fetishes that might push someone to want to transition inappropriately).

It worked well as the regret rate was really low (2 or 3%).

Yet society has gradually been pushed by the ones who were excluded by this filtering process into the idea that this is not a medical matter and is just a personal choice and nobody wanting to do it should be disenfranchised.

The Equality Act protects all those people to a reasonable degree (it is self ID based, unlike the Gender Recognition Act that is medically assessed). But it does not 'validate'.

The rights protected by the EA are actually far more than many transsexuals had before 2004 when the GRA was created. But the activists were not satisfied with half way. They wanted all the way. And to achieve that meant they had to do one of two things.

Say they had dysphoria and try to cheat the medical gatekeeping. Some probably succeeded and some definitely tried. The internet made on line tuition as to how to cheat your way in possible.

As this usually failed - there are rejected applicants for recognition every year with reasons cited that the applicant was not transsexual but had other problems not qualifying for a GRC. So they needed the second option.

Which was to persuade government the existing rules were too onerous. So they claimed that the reasons they were there at all and transsexuals were (and are) supportive of them - that they protect both the patient from wrong self diagnosis and inappropriate transition and society from someone inappropriate transitioning - were stopping tens of thousands of non transsexuals from being legally recognised.

So all the gatekeeping should be removed and make this a matter of choice. They are even asking that children at school be allowed to self declare. You cannot get a GRC unless you are an adult presently.

Once you see it this way you appreciate who is trying to change what and why. And the risks of so doing are startlingly obvious.

The government for some reason were conned and then tried to fool the public by arguing the GRA was not working as too few were applying.

When exactly the numbers predicted by doctors in 2004 were and you only get from success to failure if you move the goalposts and redefine transsexuals as transgender.

Women are rightly furious at their own identity being rewritten without consent. Exactly the same thing is happening to transsexuals. Which is why, despite most being in no way activists and not wanting any rights or changes to the law, some are risking abuse (and getting it) to speak up in the same way women are.

Hopefully the government will heed these warnings.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 12/11/2018 15:13

While leafletting for FPFW about the GRA consultation, I was approached by a transsexual who said she didn't want a leaflet as she already totally agreed with us.

She had a GRC and said the process protected both her and wider society. She had to talk to medics about how she saw her future as a woman, which protected her from making a massive mistake. The questioning also ensured she was not a predator or a fetishist - which protected society, especially women.

She was one of the transsexuald who wrote a joint letter to the Guardian opposing Self ID.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/11/2018 15:18

isuothebrew very interesting, and unfortunately, very true. What are the long term affects of these hormone blockers on prepubescent children? It was fine before, it was good that there were more hoops for people to jump through. So those with genuine gender dysphoria were treated.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 12/11/2018 15:21

She had to talk to medics about how she saw her future as a woman, which protected her from making a massive mistake.

This has also been my real life experience for the transpeople I know, they realise self ID will open the door to the very predators they need protecting from.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 12/11/2018 15:22

I agree with PP who say it's good to have a thread like this in AIBU for traffic. I told my DB I thought only one person in a hundred knew about the proposed changes to the law. He said it was more like one in a thousand.

When I was leafletting for Fair Play for Women the most common first reaction was shock that such a huge change was being planned without anyone knowing. The next stage was seeing just how dangerous it would be. You didn't need to explain the potential downsides. Men in particular got it straight away.

When I think of what we're facing - a demand that fully male people be redesignated as women legally and have access to spaces where women are naked or otherwise vulnerable - that children lose their fertility and sex lives for being gender non conforming - it all sounds so bonkers you can hardly believe it's happening.

But it is happening, and it will soon affect every one of us if we don't put the brakes on. Women need to know about this.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 12/11/2018 15:23

Self ID in it's current proposed form. I should say. They do think it may work in some other form but are against it currently.

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/11/2018 15:28

There is some wanton and hysterical man hating bullshit on here..

Can a woman have a penis - if she wants to or she did'nt get it removed yet. Yes.

Can someone be born with both female and male genitalia, yes they can, so theres one way a woman can have a penis.

For all those 'omg penis, penis = rape'...

'Y'all are aware that women can, and do, commit rape... right'..

Go and wobble your heads.

Possomshell · 12/11/2018 15:31

Can a woman have a penis - if she wants to or she did'nt get it removed yet. Yes.
What's your definition of woman Hmm?

Go give your head a wobble at dismissing women discussing the importance of sex segregated spaces as man hating bullshit

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 12/11/2018 15:33

Some people on the thread are men....