To leave 7 week old alone in bedroomwith a baby monitor?

[HollyGoLoudly1]

Wise mumsnetters, please advise - SIDS advice says if baby is sleeping that they should be in the same room as you until 6 months. I want to start a bedtime routine with baby going down in the bedroom at 8pm. Is this ok if I am listening in using a monitor? Or do they literally have to be in the same room (i.e. living room) until I go to bed?

Is it not more likely that those who have babies who self settle and can be put down to sleep easily are more able to have a routine? Mine cluster fed into the night for the first few months, I would have failed miserably at a 7 pm bedtime routine.

Of course not because you didn't have a baby who got disturbed in the evenings!

But I did though? She got disturbed when we moved her upstairs, she got disturbed when we moved about downstairs. That was kinda the point of keeping her with us. I was responding to a poster who said that those who say a baby is too young for a routine had bad sleepers. Not making a sweeping generalisation that all babies are like mine or mine is the 'right' way.

I don't think that 'all babies are the same' but I do think that trying to shoehorn a 7 week old baby into a 'routine' is most likely a fruitless and potentially dangerous exercise. As someone else so succinctly put it, the risk is low but the stakes are high.

Mine also cluster fed. But somewhere between that I found time for a bath, quick massage in dim light, fresh clothes and nappy, a story book and a feed (baths make them hungry anyway). We then kept them in the dark room till 6:30/7 am. I did this with both kids and very soon they knew day from night. So if he fed several more times (or constantly) I would just sit upstairs with an iPad. My kids (7 and 2) still have the same routine. Go upstairs, brush teeth, have a bath, read a story (7 can read but he listens to the toddler’s story, then goes and reads on his own and when I am done with the toddler I go and read to him and if DH is there we take one kid each), tucked into bed and night night. We never have the bedtime shenanigans that people talk about because that night routine is so ingrained for both of them. We started it with DS1 when he was 2 weeks and DS2 from the night he came home from hospital.

Interestingly, two ‘routine’ things worked well for us. My MIL suggested that in order to deal with the shock of first time motherhood I get myself into a routine. Get up, feed, hand baby to DH who changes baby into a fresh set of clothes while I shower, change, have tea and toast. DH then finishes any chores and makes me a quick sandwich before he leaves. So by 8 am we are all dressed, I have had a shower and something to eat and there is a sandwich for later.
She then recommended that at roughly the same time I have lunch and if DS grizzled next to me for 10 mins while I ate a sandwich then that was fine.
Then roughly at the same time go for a long walk. I used to listen to podcasts.
And then roughly at the same time, the bedtime routine above.
So getting myself into a routine gave our days, especially the first three months some predictability.

The second thing I did was around 3-4 months to note when DS fed and slept for a 10’day period and I noted that he did have a semi routine which I only noticed when written down. And then I nudged him on to a more set version of the same with a more defined bed time, and as he got older, with a defined morning activity.
You don’t have to follow some routine in a book.
Routine doesn’t mean set times. It just means roughly doing the same things in the same order at roughly the same times every day. Which is how most people live their lives anyway.

@MrMakersFartyParty "The parents have usually done something" "they knew there was a risk and did it anyway" "If justifying a choice to take an unnecessary risk that way makes someone feel more comfortable, that's fine, but I have seen the consequences "

I'm afraid your posts very much sound like you blame them and feel it could have been avoided if they'd followed the guidance more closely. I'm sure you've never said it but you may have unconsciously hinted at it as you have done here.

You say you formula fed (as did I). That increased your baby's risk of SIDS almost as much as sleeping in a separate room. I have no doubt you had a good reason for FF - perhaps your physical or mental health was being impacted? For other women, sharing a room all the way to six months impacts their physical or mental health. What makes one decision okay and the other not?

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, I'm just frustrated to see women tearing each other down. We all know how hard it is to raise a baby. By all means share the guidelines - but after that I believe we should support mothers in their informed decisions, not scaremonger and try to make them feel guilty with stories of dead babies and grieving parents.

"Theres no other way around it, they're just as likely to die of SIDS at 2pm as they are at 1am."

That's actually not supported by the statistics. I believe one of the main studies into time of sids deaths found that 83% happened after midnight.

Sorry @peachgreen but what I actually said was The parents have usually done something like put the baby in their own room too early, fell asleep holding them, left them in a carseat etc and they are devastated, blaming themselves because they knew there was a risk and did it anyway.. No amount of comforting from us helps and I can't imagine carrying that burden and loss.

I am not suggesting anything, I'm telling it how it is and how it has happened in my workplace, it is the parents who are telling us these things and blaming themselves. And as I said we comfort them and it's bloody awful.
In my previous role I would see women who had stillbirths etc who had been smoking in pregnancy asking the doctors why it happened to them and the doctors had to go through the risk factors with them.

Tiny mind blown then.

@FranticallyPeaceful Because that's absolutely what's happening here.  Don't be so ridiculous. We're none of us perfect mothers and not everything will always come naturally. That's not down to an innate deficiency, it's because we're all different and so are our babies.

@MrMakersFartyParty I understand what you're saying, but I feel like having those experiences would make me more militant about not allowing people to blame themselves for SIDS, no matter what choices they'd made.

I just hate seeing women berating other mothers. It's so, so tough. At the height of my PND a thread like this - being told that because I was hallucinations from sleep deprivation and desperately wanted to move my 4 month old with grunting baby syndrome into another room, it reflected my "lack of maternal instinct" - would have pushed me over the edge and my daughter would no longer have a mother. I can't imagine doing that to another woman just so I can feel superior about my parenting choices.

can I put him down in the crib when he falls asleep late evening rather than keeping him in the living room with us?
Yes, you can do whatever you choose to do but you are increasing his risk of SIDS by doing this rather than keeping him in the same room as you.

He’s just coming into the peak risk age wise for SIDS, so statistically it’s riskier doing it now than when he was a newborn.

Everyone on this thread will have their own opinion and what they did etc and lots will say ‘it’s fine’ and it may be. Or, you could be one of the unfortunate ones where you put him to sleep on his own and one night it isn’t fine.

Do your research and reading into SIDS and then choose whether or not you want to follow the guidelines.

Remember many on this thread are offering poor advice, such as use of breathing monitors. Evidence shows these do nothing to reduce SIDS.

This thread has made me panic massively. I've a 9 week old who has been a notoriously poor sleeper. We've resorted to co-sleeping (he hates the bedside crib) on our memory foam mattress and he likes to be really close to me in order to fall asleep. How can I change that? He's currently got colic and reflux so I'm desperate for him to sleep and get some rest. So far, he likes me being next to him when sleeping but I have managed to escape a few times with the baby monitor on but he's soon awake and searching for me and then wide awake :/ any advice appreciated...

ISIS online have some good evidence-based guidance.
www.isisonline.org.uk/where_babies_sleep/room_alone/
www.isisonline.org.uk/hcp/where_babies_sleep/room_alone/

Babies are most at risk of SIDS between 2-3 months.
I'd try and hold out for a few more weeks if you can bear it.

Currently upstairs settling 21 week old in her crib (in our room, less than a metre from my side of the bed). When (if?!) she goes to sleep I'm going to go downstairs and have an hour to myself. I've been looking after her and my 4yo all day and DH is away. Darn tootin I am having that hour!

I started a routine downstairs at 8 weeks we uses to dim the lights after 7 talk really quietly and used a lights and music box. So I would put her down awake after her 7pm feed and let her fall to sleep herself. She would then sleep till last feed at 10.30 then up to bed. Did that till 5 months then she went into her own room but was already used to the routine of it getting quiter and darker and of falling asleep to her light and music box.

Wow I kind of wish I hadn't started this thread now - I can't believe what a bunfight it's ended up being.

I can't ignore @FranticallyPeaceful's comment however. throw them in another room whilst I sleep for my convenience

Really? First, my post isn't about me sleeping, it's about how best to put my boy to sleep without distrubing him. This is going 100% off my maternal instincts (which are perfectly intact thank you) which are telling me he is starting to tell night from day and would benefit from not being disturbed by moving him from room to room at bedtime. I am taking all advice on board and goady comments like yours are unneccesary.

Secondly, sleep is absolutely essential for both mental and physical health. To call it a 'convenience' is flippant and shows a total lack of empathy. I am extremely lucky that my baby already sleeps reasonably well. However I have seen friends brought to their knees by sleep deprivation. To the absolute brink of making it through the day. To barely be able to look after their baby's most basic needs let alone themselves. Sleep is not a 'convenience', it's a necessity.

Honestly I can't believe the lack of care and compassion in some of the language being used on this thread. There are likely to be new mothers, possibly with PND, desperate for sleep reading these threads.
Sleep isn't a convience, it is a basic essential of life, depriving prisoners of it breaks international law.
By all means state the current guidelines, talk about what works for you but let's keep the language moderate and not talk about throwing kids around for our convience

@discopisco don’t panic! Our lad didn’t want to lie flat for the first four months of his life. Had a bedside cot too. The way we dealt with it was to feed in more upright (if breastfeeding) position. Allow to fall into sleep on me. Burping didn’t work for us because it just seemed to make the sick worse. After 10-20 mins, transfer into prewarmed crib or cot. White noise as feeding and lying down. Cot and Moses basket always tilted.

This did mean that I sometimes fell asleep with him on me. This is not following safe sleep guidelines so your mileage may vary. I think you have to sometimes make an informed decision about the risks. The risks are real and safe sleep guidelines have helped reduce cot death. Oth, our baby wasn’t going to sleep any other way so I just decided to work with the baby we had. We all got a bit more sleep that way. You will find your way through the maze of advice I am sure.

I started a routine and put my babies down to sleep (in my room) from day 1. As long as you are still responding to their needs then I see no reason to not begin to establish a routine from day 1.
My babies were left alone for a few hours in the early evening with me popping in and out.

@discopisco if you are co-sleeping anyway the safest way is to read up on safe co-sleeping and follow the guidelines. So things like firm mattress (not memory foam so may be worth swapping if you can), no pillow or quilt (use blankets instead, the massive cellular type ones are good), make sure no gaps baby can get stuck between or roll off. Breastfeed lying down rather than sitting up so you make a ‘c’ shape round the baby meaning you can’t roll on them (if you look up images you will see how to do it).
If you drink, smoke, take drugs or use formula then it isn’t recommended to co-sleep.

Statistically in terms of SIDS, in breastfed babies over 3 months, if safe co-sleeping guidelines are followed there isn’t an increased risk.

Putting your baby down to sleep in another room, is not dumping them, what an absurd remark.

Every baby is different and you just need to do what’s works for you and your family.

The posts on this thread are very judgmental!

My daughter has been put down upstairs by herself from around 2 months - she gets very cross if you try and keep her downstairs past her bedtime. I then enjoy having an evening! However if your baby is downstairs with you that is also ok.