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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To destroy my mother's happiness to protect my daughter from my father? Please help me.

456 replies

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 19:43

I'm sorry in advance that this will be long. There's a lot of history and the back story is necessary. I am worried about the influence of my dad on my daughter (12 weeks old) but it would completely devestate my mum to restrict her contact with her granddaughter. There are several aspects I need help and advice on.

My dad is a very difficult man. He is I think extremely emotionally abusive. He has been diagnosed with depression but I am unsure whether there is some other mental health disorder which is undiagnosed (he lies to the GP). His default reaction to any adversity in life is rage. This used to be directed at me and my brother but since we left home this is focused solely on my mum. He can go months being very nice and kind, he's very good at DIY and loves to help people. But then when something goes wrong (can be quite a small thing) or there's any kind of slight disagreement in the family he will just turn. He becomes so angry, shouts and yells, says terrible things, is menacing and hostile. This can go on for weeks or months with long periods where he just completely ignored your existence (as a teenager living at home with him he once did not acknowledge me or speak to me for three whole months). He also gaslights when he is in these episodes (and I know the term is bandied around but I mean properly). He hides things like keys etc, breaks things and denies it, rewrites history, swears black is white and makes you question your sanity. He has had therapy, he's on antidepressants, he's done CBT and mindfulness courses. There have been numerous 'showdowns' and ultimatums about his behaviour. Things will improve for a while and each time we all start thinking maybe he has changed but eventually he slides back to his old patterns of behaviour.

My mum is a kind, patient, gentle woman. She has spent the last 35 years trying to 'fix' him. She spends a lot of her life miserable because of his episodes. We have a very close relationship and speak or see each other every day (usually just us, not with my dad too). I have thought for as long as I can remember that she should leave which she knows but does not have the strength to do / chooses not to. I feel like my heart is actually breaking watching how much he hurts her.

Through the years there have been times when I gave cut him off completely but gradually for my mum's sake I have let him back in to my life. For full disclosure out of me, my mum and brother I am the least affected by him and his behaviour. I have never been afraid of him like they are. I call him out on his shit and will say it like it is (have told him to his face I think he's an emotional abuser). He hates this as he can't stand being disagreed with. Also, for full honesty he was physically violent with me a few times growing up (kicked me quite hard a few times etc) but as I said our personalities do clash and I always gave as good as I got (verbally as I was obviously no match for him physically). I have told him that any relationship we have is for mum's benefit only.

When they found out I was pregnant both my parents were overjoyed (it's their first grandchild). They immediately offered to provide childcare for her when I go back to work and were generally very excited for the future. My dad loves kids and we all thought maybe this would be a fresh start for him. Looking after her would give his days meaning and purpose and he seemed very positive about the future so all was well. We were all very hopeful.

Fast forward to this week. His estranged step father died (virtually NC for 20 years) and he's gone into a tailspin. Screaming and raging at my mum to the point she had to come to stay with me. All our hopes that he'd changed have been dashed again.

I'm now wondering if leaving my daughter with him is an irresponsible move. I don't honestly think he'd ever hurt her but I want her to be influenced by seeing positive relationships as she grows up, not abusive ones. However, when I broached this with my mum she was devestated. She's so looking forward to having her when I'm back to work the thought of missing out on that destroyed her. I know people will say she shouldn't depend on her grandchild for happiness but what else has she got while living with him?

So to my AIBUs:

1: AIBU to accept their offer and let them care for my daughter (possibly but setting good toke midels for relationships). I feel incapable of hurting my mum by taking this away from her when I think it's basically her only source of real happiness.

2: OR AIBU to be so hard on my dad when he does after all have mental health issues? I am so unclear in my own mind how much of his behaviour is illness or if it's abuse? Where do you draw the line? And how much should you tolerate while making excuses because of his mental health? I'm so confused as to whether I'm a cold bitch with no sympathy for mental illness or whether my mum is just buying into the old chestnut that all abusive men are actually tortured souls who need a woman to save them.

Sorry it's so long and thank you if you've read to the end. Any opinions or advice are welcome. Thank you x

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 06/11/2018 20:43

Your mum will be miserable and you'll blame yourself or your daughter will be damaged and it could be avoided. Which?

Nofunkingworriesmate · 06/11/2018 20:44

You are not in any way responsible for keeping either parent happy or rescueing them
Ask yourself simple question if I sent you Mary popping as a free nanny to your home would you like her to care for your baby, or would you like your mum and dad ?
I know I've had days when I'm so skint and desperate for childcare that I've had some young ( 15 year old) and less than perfect individuals
( adulterous smokers !😲!') babysit but I would never ever let someone who had actually abused me any where near any baby

garethsouthgatesmrs · 06/11/2018 20:44

Likeshyt

it sounds like you are in a similar position to the OP in the sense that you feel responsible for your mum. The thing is that you are not and neither is the OP.

The OP is responsible for her dd though and thats where her loyalties should ultimately lie. This doesn't mean we shouldn't feel compassion for the OPs mum just that it's not a reason to put her dd at risk.

Missingstreetlife · 06/11/2018 20:44

Look into counselling op, it's a long road.

Racecardriver · 06/11/2018 20:44

Why can’t she just look after her at your house?

Likeshyt · 06/11/2018 20:45

thenaughtyone I am so sorry to read, how harrowing. Lots of love x

TheOneWith · 06/11/2018 20:47

You don’t owe either of them anything.

Your dad was abusive towards you. Your mum for whatever reasons, prioritised herself over you and your brother when you were a child.

It would be irresponsible of you to leave your child with a man who you know is a violent abuser of children and a woman who you know actively turned a blind eye to child abuse.

Neither of them should be left unsupervised with yours or any child.

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 20:47

@Likeshyt you're right. My mum is the one that needs help. If I step back from her I honestly don't know what would become of her.

I appreciate the responses. I reading my own words back your replies make perfect sense but it all feels much more complicated IRL...

My brother who was always more outwardly affected than me (depression, self harm etc) has moved to another country and has much less contact than me. Because I (think) I am the stronger one I have stayed close to be there for my mum so that she has someone to talk to when things get bad. I know it's not really appropriate for her to run to me for support every time but I do understand because I'm the only person she can talk to that really knows what he's like.

I don't think he's ever hit her. He's been rough, blocking doorways, throwing things about if not directly at her etc. He was more physical with me I think because as I say I would always argue back at him which would rile him up further. But this was not a common occurrence, the verbal / emotional abuse was much more frequent. Its for this reason that I said I don't think he'd physically hurt my daughter. I do also think that I'd things go bad my mum would whisk her away up to my house immediately. However, this does not resolve the issue of my daughter seeing abd being influenced by the relationship which I agree with everyone there does not seem to be a way around.

OP posts:
HauntedPencil · 06/11/2018 20:48

There is no way I'd leave a child with him for the day for childcare, I would hope your mum would visit at yours or if you feel you can stand it go with the baby.

Unless your mum will mind at your house without him, I think you'll just have so say no, and surely she will get it.

It would not be healthy for a child to be around him having his rage episodes.

AcrossthePond55 · 06/11/2018 20:49

Along with the fact that your child's safety (mental and physical) must take priority over anything else (including your mother), I think you need to understand that at some point in time, maybe not tomorrow or a year from tomorrow but someday for sure, something will happen that will send your dad off the rails whilst your DD is present. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. So you need to set things up now so that your DD isn't anywhere in the area or can be removed instantly when it does. That means NEVER leaving her alone with your parents, either of them. Your mum unfortunately has proven that she was unwilling to protect her own children and so you must assume the same applies to grandchildren. If you have mum care for DD in your home, what's going to stop your dad from coming over once you're gone?

Obvs your mother needs to leave him, but it's very likely that that's never going to happen. As long as she's only inflicting him on herself, that's her decision. But you have a bigger responsibility.

cheeseandpineapple · 06/11/2018 20:49

“She spends a lot of her life miserable because of his episodes.”

Your mother is already miserable.

Ceecee18 · 06/11/2018 20:50

Racecardriver because how can the OP ensure that her mother won't allow her father to visit without the OPs knowledge?

onefishtwofishthreefish · 06/11/2018 20:51

OP I too could have written a lot of this myself and I was in a similar situation when I had my DC. Unfortunately it's not as simple as "don't leave your baby with them" as most are saying. Having a grandchild hugely improved my DF behaviour, enough for me to feel ok leaving my DC with them but, I've had many conversations with my DM prior to me having my DC and afterwards, reiterating any concerns I've had. He absolutely adores my DC and I think he's seen it as maybe a 'last chance' to do good. How he's being with my DC is completely different to how he was and is with me. Unfortunately I'll never like my DF and we don't have a good relationship (just rub along and are loosely held together by my DM) but, at the moment I'm ok with me leaving my DC with them (not happy about him ever being left on his own with my DF though). It's something I'm always aware of so as my DC gets older then I'll still be mindful and anxious and will have to see how I feel then. I could go on more so I'm happy for you to PM me if I can help x

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 20:51

It's honestly hard for me to comprehend that people don't feel responsible for the happiness of their loved ones though? Maybe that is me being conditioned into that role but it's hard to imagine feeling a different way.

My daughter is of course my number one priority.

OP posts:
Likeshyt · 06/11/2018 20:53

gareth My point exactly, though what OPs mum has done is unforgivable, I can only gather that she is probably in a very fragile mental state and always has been.

And sorry, but no I’m not - at all. it’s been me and my mum from day one, when my father wanted nothing to do with me, she never brought me up with a cry for love. I feel that way as a choice, not because she makes me feel that way. She has been the best mum I, or anyone could have ever wished for. She deserves a daughter like me to look after her.

Anyway, this is NOT about me, I posted that directly to OP as another vertical- sorry to offend.

OP Lots And Lots of love. I can’t imagine how hard it has been xo

Orchiddingme · 06/11/2018 20:53

Your mum may have thought he would never hurt you. But he did. Why would he not hurt your daughter? She is as precious (nor not) as you are.

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 20:53

@onefishtwofishthreefish your post gives me hope.

My mum was not treated particularly well by her parents (largely societal - was pressured into staying with a previous abusive partner to save face etc etc) but they were very good grandparents to me.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/11/2018 20:54

my mum could care for her at my house but I'm worried the tension of this (my dad knowing I'm not allowing him to look after my daughter) would goad him make her home life even worse

With the best will in the world, your priority now should be your own child rather than your parents' relationship

It's perhaps significant that your DF can behave decently for a while when the family have "blown up" at him, but whether he really has MH or not isn't the point here. The fact remains that your DM is enabling his abuse just as she enabled him to abuse you, and I'm afraid I agree with the PP who said this makes her unsuitable to care for your child

Should she wish to make changes you could perhaps revisit this, but for now her "happiness" shouldn't stand above your DD's safety

LukeSkywalkerBoots · 06/11/2018 20:54

OP in your response above you’ve honed in on the one reply you had that your mum is the victim. It pours out of you in your posts how responsible you feel for her happiness. Who chose to stay with this man? Who chose to not protect her children? SHE did.

NonaGrey · 06/11/2018 20:54

I’m sorry, it must be so hard.

To speak plainly, you are a parent now, your first and only consideration is what is best for your daughter.

I feel sorry for your Mum but she is an adult, she’s responsible for her own choices.

Your DD needs you to protect her and prioritise her wellbeing over your Mum’s.

You Mum didn’t protect you, she allowed you to grow up with a mentally, emotionally and physically abusive parent.

Why would you put your DD in the same position?

You might understand why your Mum stayed but that doesn’t mean you have sacrifice your daughter to the cause.

I’m sure your Mum will be upset and I’m sure she’ll make all sorts of promises to protect your DD. She couldn’t protect you though, it won’t be any different this time around.

Find a nursery. You Mum can have time with her at the weekend when you are present.

FFSFFSFFS · 06/11/2018 20:54

It's honestly hard for me to comprehend that people don't feel responsible for the happiness of their loved ones though? Maybe that is me being conditioned into that role but it's hard to imagine feeling a different way.

you sound very much in the FOG (Fear Obligation and Guilt)

Did you mother feel responsible for your happiness?

No one is responsible for another person's happiness (children excluded). That's a very unhealthy belief to have. But it takes a lot of work to understand why it's unhealthy when you have been brought up to believe you are responsible for your mother's happiness.

What you are like on boundaries? I'm going to guess not so good.

My recommendation would be to start doing some reading around enmeshment, boundaries, co-dependency.

FFSFFSFFS · 06/11/2018 20:55

oh and also look into parentification.

Santaispolishinghissleigh · 06/11/2018 20:55

Ceecee that has just crossed my mind also.

DwayneDibbly · 06/11/2018 20:56

But OP, your Mum was responsible for your happiness and she saw fit to put your father first. You were therefore brought up with a father who physically assaulted you. If you put your mother's feelings over your daughter you will be doing much the same as she has always done.

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 20:56

@Likeshyt I feel the same as you. My mum does deserve my love and support and to see her grandchild as much as she likes and derive some happiness from that. I wish with all my heart I could separate the two issues of my mum vs my dad but I can't.

OP posts:
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