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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To destroy my mother's happiness to protect my daughter from my father? Please help me.

456 replies

Haahhpy · 06/11/2018 19:43

I'm sorry in advance that this will be long. There's a lot of history and the back story is necessary. I am worried about the influence of my dad on my daughter (12 weeks old) but it would completely devestate my mum to restrict her contact with her granddaughter. There are several aspects I need help and advice on.

My dad is a very difficult man. He is I think extremely emotionally abusive. He has been diagnosed with depression but I am unsure whether there is some other mental health disorder which is undiagnosed (he lies to the GP). His default reaction to any adversity in life is rage. This used to be directed at me and my brother but since we left home this is focused solely on my mum. He can go months being very nice and kind, he's very good at DIY and loves to help people. But then when something goes wrong (can be quite a small thing) or there's any kind of slight disagreement in the family he will just turn. He becomes so angry, shouts and yells, says terrible things, is menacing and hostile. This can go on for weeks or months with long periods where he just completely ignored your existence (as a teenager living at home with him he once did not acknowledge me or speak to me for three whole months). He also gaslights when he is in these episodes (and I know the term is bandied around but I mean properly). He hides things like keys etc, breaks things and denies it, rewrites history, swears black is white and makes you question your sanity. He has had therapy, he's on antidepressants, he's done CBT and mindfulness courses. There have been numerous 'showdowns' and ultimatums about his behaviour. Things will improve for a while and each time we all start thinking maybe he has changed but eventually he slides back to his old patterns of behaviour.

My mum is a kind, patient, gentle woman. She has spent the last 35 years trying to 'fix' him. She spends a lot of her life miserable because of his episodes. We have a very close relationship and speak or see each other every day (usually just us, not with my dad too). I have thought for as long as I can remember that she should leave which she knows but does not have the strength to do / chooses not to. I feel like my heart is actually breaking watching how much he hurts her.

Through the years there have been times when I gave cut him off completely but gradually for my mum's sake I have let him back in to my life. For full disclosure out of me, my mum and brother I am the least affected by him and his behaviour. I have never been afraid of him like they are. I call him out on his shit and will say it like it is (have told him to his face I think he's an emotional abuser). He hates this as he can't stand being disagreed with. Also, for full honesty he was physically violent with me a few times growing up (kicked me quite hard a few times etc) but as I said our personalities do clash and I always gave as good as I got (verbally as I was obviously no match for him physically). I have told him that any relationship we have is for mum's benefit only.

When they found out I was pregnant both my parents were overjoyed (it's their first grandchild). They immediately offered to provide childcare for her when I go back to work and were generally very excited for the future. My dad loves kids and we all thought maybe this would be a fresh start for him. Looking after her would give his days meaning and purpose and he seemed very positive about the future so all was well. We were all very hopeful.

Fast forward to this week. His estranged step father died (virtually NC for 20 years) and he's gone into a tailspin. Screaming and raging at my mum to the point she had to come to stay with me. All our hopes that he'd changed have been dashed again.

I'm now wondering if leaving my daughter with him is an irresponsible move. I don't honestly think he'd ever hurt her but I want her to be influenced by seeing positive relationships as she grows up, not abusive ones. However, when I broached this with my mum she was devestated. She's so looking forward to having her when I'm back to work the thought of missing out on that destroyed her. I know people will say she shouldn't depend on her grandchild for happiness but what else has she got while living with him?

So to my AIBUs:

1: AIBU to accept their offer and let them care for my daughter (possibly but setting good toke midels for relationships). I feel incapable of hurting my mum by taking this away from her when I think it's basically her only source of real happiness.

2: OR AIBU to be so hard on my dad when he does after all have mental health issues? I am so unclear in my own mind how much of his behaviour is illness or if it's abuse? Where do you draw the line? And how much should you tolerate while making excuses because of his mental health? I'm so confused as to whether I'm a cold bitch with no sympathy for mental illness or whether my mum is just buying into the old chestnut that all abusive men are actually tortured souls who need a woman to save them.

Sorry it's so long and thank you if you've read to the end. Any opinions or advice are welcome. Thank you x

OP posts:
Haahhpy · 08/11/2018 14:55

Thanks to those who offered support, advice and kind words. Some of the comments I am taking with a massive pinch of salt, as I wouldn't routinely take advice from people who are deliberately hurtful to someone who's struggling.

I get the message and the concensus is overwhelming so I don't think I need to read any more.

Thanks again for your insight and wise words x

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 08/11/2018 15:07

Flowers to you, wishing you strength and happiness.

NonaGrey · 08/11/2018 15:09
Flowers
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/11/2018 15:22

@Haahhpy - I can understand why you are finding this so hard - it is entirely natural not to want to hurt your mum.

I would ask you this:

If your child was at your parents’ house, and your dad flew into one of his rages, do you think your mum would protect your child? It doesn’t sound as if she protected you, and having been pretty much the sole target of his behaviour in recent years is not going to have made her better able to protect a vulnerable child - she can’t even really protect herself.

Bottom line is that your mum is an adult and does have choices, whereas your child will be a baby and will have no choices, so you have to make the right choices for her, and I am sorry to say that I agree with th consensus on here that you can’t let your mum look after your child.

I hope you and she can find a way out of this terrible situation she is in.

AcrossthePond55 · 08/11/2018 15:37

Best wishes to you Haahhpy, I'm sure you'll get through this.

Bekabeech · 08/11/2018 16:04

Hope you get any help you need and I'm sure with asking for advice when you need to you will be a lovely Mum to your DD. Flowers

We all need help sometimes - and more people getting counselling would be a good thing. (And I'm not a counsellor).

OliviaBenson · 08/11/2018 16:24

Good luck op. It took me a long time to get my head around my mothers complicity in my fathers abuse. His was obvious, hers less so.

Counselling helped me tremendously. Thanks

DwayneDibbly · 08/11/2018 16:29

Some of the latter comments are quite harsh, I think, but I guess this has been quite triggering for many of the posters. Good luck OP. 

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/11/2018 16:40

My dad loves kids.....well he didn't love you did he?

If really that single sentence is all you have to offer to the OP . Well it lacks any trace of kindness and empathy towards someone stuck . Sheesh . I am sure you will come back and say something sharp but a very unkind and uncaring comment there

onefishtwofishthreefish · 08/11/2018 17:01

I'm amazed that some people are still posting harsh comments. Have they not read the OPs last comment?! Enough now and leave the OP in peace to digest all this.

onefishtwofishthreefish · 08/11/2018 17:04

That's for SDTGis really 😳

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/11/2018 17:16

Well - I didn’t mean to be harsh, and I am sorry if it came over that way. I can see what a hard situation this is for the OP, and what a difficult decision she has to make, but that doesn’t change the decision she needs to make, does it?

Blanchedupetitpois · 08/11/2018 17:19

I absoltely wouldn’t leave a child with him. He isn’t safe to be around your daughter.

Could you say your Mum has to look after your daughter at your house without your dad being there, rather than at her own?

Debfronut · 08/11/2018 17:28

Your first priority will always be your child. Its sad for your mum and for the free childcare you could have had but he cannot be allowed in her life. I hope this might be the push your mum needs to leave so you can cut him out of your life. I am sorry you have to make such a tough decision x

onefishtwofishthreefish · 08/11/2018 17:29

SDTGis it was more that I can't see why people are still commenting as it's all been said really. It's a hell of a thing to take in all these comments (not just the OP but for also for people who've been through similar) and the OP has said that she'd like to leave it and digest all that's been said.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/11/2018 17:33

I genuinely missed her saying that, @onefishtwofishthreefish - for which I apologise.

goodtimesarecomingaround · 08/11/2018 17:38

I sort of had / have this situation but I live about 70 miles from my parents, but we are close. Very similar issues growing up etc and now with anger towards my mild mother.

They offered childcare 2 days a week. I had concerns about my Dad being involved, which he would have been as they would need to stay over to do 2 days. They tend to come as a pair, although they are both better separately.

In the end I decided not to go back to work. This is very hard financially and I really loved my career. But I could not afford nursery 5 days a week and to work in London etc due to costs of commute also.

Now my parents come once a week to visit together. My Dad often lectures me and insists my mother agrees. And I say he is entitled to his opinions.

I have also said on a number of occasions I am the parent and I decide how to parent DS. You have had your turn and you made your choices then. Now it is my turn.

My parents love to criticise how I have not returned to work and play the we offered free childcare card. I feel for the sake of my DS I prefer to be there. I don't think my mum gets why I don't work as I haven't said.

Once my father went to tap my son on the hand for touching something he shouldn't. But I was there and I saw what was about to happen and I stopped it. I know my Dad. I supervise subtly.

I do think it's important to see you grandparents and I am not perfect either.

Op it's a tough one but your child is your most precious thing. To me he is more important than sky tv, holidays and two cars. It really comes down to your circumstances.

JuliaJaynes9 · 08/11/2018 17:48

seems to me that the trend for having children when you're a bit older means that you are more likely to have the life experience and confidence to identify what really happened when you were a child and the confidence to stand up to your parents.

When you start to frame things differently, see that the mild parent was tacitly condoning the abuse from the strict parent etc etc

dazedandconfused18 · 08/11/2018 20:17

Good luck OP, as others have said the 'Stately Homes' thread is good place for supportive help from others who have gone through similar...x

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/11/2018 21:07

Oops saw OP updates

Well said . I think the thread if nothing else has given a consensus . Which is always useful . Good luck Flowers
I wish you the best

TheMaddHugger · 10/11/2018 10:40

OP... (((((((Madd soft Hugs)))))))) Flowers💐Flowers

T1meForDebate · 27/04/2019 23:45

From what you sat, it seems your mum wasn't able to protect herself or you when she was a younger, stronger woman. It's likely she'll be even less able to protect your baby at this stage in her life. And baby comes first.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. My oh is prone to rages, he also has tics and stimming behaviours that I am convinced mean he is on the autism spectrum but he would never accept this possibility. Might there be something like this with your father?

IAmRubbishAtDIY · 27/04/2019 23:50

@T1meForDebate

This was over 5 months ago.

justarandomtricycle · 27/04/2019 23:51

Child first.

Be sensitive and loving to your parents as much as you want, that is your burden you can choose to carry.

YOUR burden, not your child's, and it is (at the very least) secondary to your duty to your child, which you already believe or you wouldn't be asking the question.

Not one hair harmed on DCs head, not one cry, not one temper tantrum endured by them for anyone who is abusive.

DC at the front of the queue, then you and everyone else in whichever order you choose.

justarandomtricycle · 27/04/2019 23:52

Offs I missed the dates. We have a powerful necromancer among us.

Never mind