Grown men pretending to be children

[Happypie]

AIBU to be very worried that safeguarding has broken down in England. I have worked in several schools in London where some of the newly arrived “children” were grown men. We have complained to social services and they admitted that the pupils were blatantly men but there was nothing they could do.
These men are being put into classes and foster homes with actual children.
We do not allow adults without DBS checks to have unfettered access to children unless they pretend to be children.
Head teachers hands are also tied. The only way to change things seems to be through parent complaints like in the story below. This is not safeguarding. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-suffolk-46070239

I'm not suggesting not protecting minority rights. I'm saying feelings don't trump safety.

Although at the moment thry do seem to on so many issues.

If we provided education for adult refugees ( and U.K. citizens btw) this problem would disappear. Puff. Gone. It would be no more.

People would rather harangue refugees than look for a long term solution that benefits the U.K. either way.

If we educate adult refugees it benefits the U.K. if they stay, it benefits the country they come from if they have to return. The more educated people in poorer countries the richer they get making economic migration less likely.

Win win.

Stop pointing the finger at vulnerable people and start asking why we don't just provide decent adult education.

This is a good briefing from the Refugee Council about children in the asylum system: www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/assets/0004/4187/Children_in_the_Asylum_System_Aug_2018.pdf

It notes that the following countries make up over 80% of the disputed age cases in 2017

Afghanistan 125
Eritrea 109
Iraq 102
Sudan 92
Iran 87
Vietnam 56

Mouse - this issue isn't solely about education, though. As a pp has said quite eloquently upthread, the way that we treat adult asylum seekers is miles apart from the system we have in place for UASCs, one aspect of which is the provision of state education. Even with brilliant adult education facilities all over the country, we would still have 25 year olds claiming to be 16, because they are much more likely to be allowed to stay, and they get significntly more support than an adult.

(I don't disagree with the point that we need a better 16+ and 18+ educationall offer, though)

Absolutely we have a fragmented system. However, the thread was started in relation to adults in schools and that is easily solved. All the issues around safeguarding would disappear if we provided better education.

Many of the young people I work with genuinely don't know how old they are. Also, I have see students withdrawn from post 16 education because they are 15 and then there are no school places locally so they are moved again. Adding to their trauma.

We have an underfunded, fragmented system that treats young people in vulnerable situations appallingly. Even if these young people are returned home we should treat them decently while they are in the U.K..

My general view if I have one,is that we do shamefully little for refugees

And yet the table linked below says that the UK are the fourth largest spenders - at least on Syrian refugees - when taken as a proportion of GDP

dailyhive.com/vancouver/money-countries-spending-syrian-refugee-crisis/

all the issues with education would disappear if we had better safeguarding

Well, no, they would not. It’s a very sweet view, that significantly-over-the-age-of-16-year-olds are masquerading as 16 and under purely for the purposes of enriching their minds but it isn’t.

As a child, you are provided for and if your parents cannot or will not provide for you, the state steps in. This ends as an adult.

And at 18 children are sent back to their home countries with little or no support.

I have seen students unclear about their age 'persuaded' to say they are older and then pushed out of foster care the day of their 'eighteenth' birthday and put in hostels full of adult men. Adult men with significant mental health issues. Many of the young asylum seekers I work with say they are older because they want to leave foster care they would rather live on their own.

Is that not a safeguarding issue? A 16 or 17 year old living in an adult hostel?

Some people do try to manipulate the system but according to the figures provided by OlennasWimple below it's around 600 in the U.K. which is a drop in the ocean.

I have significant anecdotal evidence of young people being forced into dangerous situations because they say they are older than they are - but no one is interested in that.

No newspaper reports the story of 17 year old boys being abused in hostels because as a country we simply don't care.

Sometimes, but not always. Certainly they have a better chance of staying here if they have established a life here which is easier to do entering as a ‘child.’

I have great sympathy with the reasons many may claim to be younger than they are. This doesn’t mean it is something we should turn a blind eye to as a nation.

If this happens in the uk in a secondary school, there will be an uproar. The refugees will be the ones to suffer most, as policies will go to the extreme the other way.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alexandra-mezher-woman-22-stabbed-to-death-during-fight-at-shelter-for-teenage-refugees-in-sweden-a6834071.html%3famp

I think the refugee was found to be 22 not 15 in the end.

Children are already being hurt and abused in adult hostels.

They are just the 'wrong kind' of children. They adjusted their age upwards, they are adults, we don't care.

To address this issue properly the system needs to be funded. As a country we won't pay, we vote for tax cuts and people get hurt.

Make your mind up, if you want a properly funded social care system for all with education you need to pay, if you won't pay people get hurt or abandoned.

Again, attempts are made to state that the interests of adult/near adult males trump that of our teenage girls.

I’ve heard that before. Not once, but many times. And I am sick of it.

If you believe I am racist, a daily mail reader, a little Englander, bring it on.

If you knew what I do and how much time and effort and energy and care I put into transforming lives - or trying to - you wouldn’t say that.

But yes that is what I took away from the post.

Adult men are lying to gain access to benefits (not monetary benefits, I mean home and school and the like) that should be for refugee children.

That isn’t right.

zzzzz I really don't believe if your whole families lives were in danger you would send your children without a parent to make a hazardous journey. If the country was such a powder keg disabled or not you would all go rather than remain and face certain death.

Schools are overcrowded as it is so for every 17+year old student in a classroom there is a 15 year old UK born teen not in the classroom of their choice. Or not getting the help required as the teacher is helping a person who should not be in the classroom at all.

Ds was a little behind with English which obviously impacted on other subjects and would have benefitted from repeating a year.

Absolutely no way was that allowed. But if someone who says they are a refugee and are a certain age then there are no questions asked and they are entered into the specific year.

Dp many years ago worked in a position where he had access to all solicitors records.

It was when there was conflict in another part of the world.

Reading the asylum applications in different solicitors offices that had cone from this particular country had 2 things in common.

They were all horrific detailing what had occurred to make them want to leave their home country.
They were all the same. Like a script learned to be repeated parrot fashion.

So maybe I am being a little cynical when I just see hoards of mainly males arriving with no families or any female member of their own family

Surely women from certain countries are safer travelling with a man, husband, brother or father than traveling on there own?

Well no I feel quite safe travelling round Europe on my own. I would not dare travell to Afghanistan, Pakistan or India on my own.

Then men have gone on ahead and left their wives to travel on there own maybe with children in tow, very sad.

I don’t think it’s racist to say some countries are safer to travel to than others for women.

Surely women from certain countries are safer travelling with a man, husband, brother or father than traveling on there own

But the men have already left so they are left to fate.