To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

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Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

@HeronLanyon - here is the book

www.penguin.co.uk/books/142/14262/the-great-hunger/9780140145151.html

It's on ebay from 1 pence!

Black sac - I find that (cis, not
Your post!) positively discriminatory ! Enrages me when people use that term. Others will say that
Makes me discriminatory. Well I for one refuse to be shut up in that absolutely bewildering debate.

In joke with myself, there used to be a poster by that name

Interestingly the Choctaw in America despite their own suffering and persecution raised money for "famine" hit Ireland. That effort is still honoured to this day.

Some of us brought up the use of BTP a few years ago and basically were ignored. It was in site stuff iirc.

@PerryPerryThePlatypus Yes, I saw that - Leo went over to honour them this year.

I think it's similar reasoning to a lot of Irish raising money for Palestine. When you've been the underdog, you tend to support people in similar situations.

It just really catches me. These people had almost nothing, themselves starving. And they helped Ireland.

I didn't know and it's interesting to have learned. I don't think it's something I'd say simply because it sounds a bit like it prim. I would expect people (MNHQ) to stop using it to correct other people's perceived offensive language.

TBH "pale" in itself is an odd choice of word when discussing racist language.

What is BTP?

I've come over from the other thread to read this one, and I'm still unconvinced that 'beyond the pale' is specifically anti-Irish as opposed to anti-French.

However, I didn't realise that the original issue was that MN were using it as part of their racism guidelines. They might as well change it there really if it's offending some posters, but I wouldn't like to see it modded on general threads.

To be honest, I think @mnhq are sick of the Irish complaining recently. I've noticed a few threads about Irish in the past week alone. Perhaps we should just shut the hell up lol! In fairness to them, they don't know why we're in a kerfuffle. Again, it goes back to them not actually knowing!

Isabelle, yes it's usage is ironic to say the least.

*its

I was shocked to discover a lot of Caribbean people have Irish surnames because we may have been slave owners over there. I ignorantly and naively thought that maybe the Irish just intermingled with the natives as they were also slaves (there is some evidence of that too). But I would get their sensitivity around the issue now.

People need to get a grip and stop being bloody offended. You choose to take offence, it's not passive.

Beyond the pale = btp

Yes we should stop moaning, sure we'd be still living in the stone age if it wasn't for them.

Although funnily enough every March 17th there's a thread whining about St George's day not being celebrated like St Patrick's Day.

Interestingly, that's not a history that is on the Irish History curriculum in schools. Maybe because it's so far away, or maybe we had not much to do with it, but with so many of them having Irish surnames, we must have been involved somehow.

The English can't throw a party like we can

There were Irish slaves as well as land grabbers owners in the Caribbean.

I don’t know a single Irish person who is offended by this phrase and I am Irish living in Ireland. This is ridiculous

^^This. I asked people at work yesterday too because I thought that maybe I was out of touch or something. Nobody found it offensive, most people were baffled as to why I would even ask.

It was when I was in school, which was neither today nor yesterday.

For such a long time the Irish were despised. No Irish need apply, No Blacks No dogs No Irish etc. For such a small country with such an awful history, the culture and the people have spread worldwide.

Oh for God’s sake

In fairness, a lot of Irish people try not to take offense anymore. We have good relations with Britain now (or had until Brexit) and most people don't want to stir the pot. I live in England, I love it here. Generally, I don't take offense to anything the English say about us (or force it out of my mind), but little things can niggle sometimes.

@WinterSpiceOnIce - there are no words! 

@Wazznme - totally agree with what you have said!

I think the thread is more about the OP wanting @mnhq to acknowledge the fact. I doubt she gets mortally offended anytime she hears it. We're good at glossing over things.