To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

[changehere]

Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

as i said a country is a nation with its own government there is no government of England

Tell the queen she doesn't live in England lol. Cos it's not a country mate. Innit

confussssed are you living in a parallel universe or something?

Now I'm so confussssed is this like one of those conspiracy things where people try to tell you Finland isn't a real country lol?!

Verbeena everyone knows Finland doesn't exist, come on!

Tell the queen she doesn't live in England lol. Cos it's not a country mate. Innit
im sure the queen knows the definition of the word country unlike you despite me giving you the definition twice

This is term is absolutely not exclusive to Ireland. The Jews in Russia were not allow to moved beyond the Pale. It's a general term used to indicate who or who couldn't in law, live in a certain area; bit like ghetto I suppose.

And as a pp has said it's been used in many other countries than Ireland.

I suppose you could find a lot of terms offensive if you look for it.

I suppose those Jews who originate from Russia could take offence at the Irish claiming that word for themselves and excluding and dismissing the awful thing they went through including all the Jewish people who were murdered by the Russians, when these laws were in place.

So does that mean NI is not a country either? We have no government. The U.K. is made up of two countries and some other bits of land?

Verbeena everyone knows Finland doesn't exist, come on!

Wasn't Wales a principality and not a country at one point? And by the looks of things it seems that Scotland isn't a country either according to pp

The Irish aren’t claiming the phrase (not word) for themselves. Nor are they claiming it was exclusive to Ireland.

So the U.K. has no countries. It’s just some land with varying accents.

Verbeena everyone knows Finland doesn't exist, come on!

grin

This reminds me of the time Becky, Darlene and David dicked over Mark during a game of scrabble on Roseanne. "Oxygen isn't a word, EVERYONE knows that!"

showing my age

And by the looks of things it seems that Scotland isn't a country either according to pp

According to most weather reports we are a "region" somewhere "up there."

Maybe they aren't but the way the OP is written strongly suggests that it's a term that relates to Ireland and as the OP says, they find it offensive when it's used by the English.

I'm just making the point, as did a pp, that it's a term that's been used all over the world.

My post was in answer to IStandWithPossie's post.

strongly suggests that it's a term that relates to Ireland

That’s because it does.

that it's a term that's been used all over the world.

No-one has said otherwise.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The clue is in the name.

The united kingdoms' are England and Scotland, Wales is a principality.

Ireland isn’t in the United Kingdom.

That was to Verbeena by the way.

@Giantbanger no one said it was. They said Northern Ireland is. You seem to have an axe to grind at the moment over Ireland - why is that?

as i said a country is a nation with its own government there is no government of England

Oh dear.

First ‘country’ is a vague term applied in different ways. The CIA World Factbook covers it well: ‘
a wide variety of dependencies, areas of special sovereignty, uninhabited islands, and other entities in addition to the traditional countries or independent states".

Second, the UK Parliament legislates and governs specifically for England (and sometimes for England and Wales) in our distinctive political system, so it’s technically incorrect to say there is no entity that governs for England.

Perverse this post is the one I was referencing.

VerbeenaBeeks Sun 04-Nov-18 12:43:20
i notice how the op keeps referring to the 'English' there is no country called England has not been for hundreds of years. i find that intresting

confused

Yes, there is. OK, it's collectively known as the United Kingdom as there's several countries, but of course it's a country in its own right!
England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland....

Verbeena says Ireland, not Northern Ireland. This is incorrect.