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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not wear makeup to work?

477 replies

TheSunflower · 31/10/2018 06:15

I am starting a graduate job in January. I don't normally wear makeup. Am I sabotaging myself if I do not wear makeup?

Or should I wear makeup?

It is a corporate job.

OP posts:
CaptSkippy · 02/11/2018 15:34

Doesn't take much to lose you @mostdays if one single sentence is enough to make you dismiss an entire argument. That is the same as saying that you won't listen to someone, because they are not perfect. It's that kind of dismissive attitude that often gets thrown at women to make them shut up and accept the staus quo. Way to keep an open mind.

CaptSkippy · 02/11/2018 15:38

Seriously, shear? A tone argument? You think young women are not smart enough to see a feminist argument unless it's glossed up and glammed up and at least to a point conforming to the status quo? How patronising of you. And you have the nerve to call other posters "unfeminist".

shearwater · 02/11/2018 15:42

If I thought feminism was about judging and belittling other women I'd certainly have been put off it as a young age, as would most right-minded people, unless you enjoy that sort of thing.

SlipperyNettle · 02/11/2018 15:45

Every single woman wearing make up is adding to the pressure on all other women to bow to societal norms and buy into their value being determined by their appearance.

Everyone, male and female, is judged by their appearance. It’s not right but it’s human nature. We know that humans tend to find certain attributes more aesthetically pleasing and attractive (facial symmetry for example), we have done for many thousands of years. Judging someone’s appearance is one way that we decide who to mate with in order to have the best chance of healthy offspring. There’s extra pressure on women, of course, because of all of the additional means to alter our appearance available to us in our culture (makeup, the choice whether to shave, etc), but it’s by no means a female only issue.

While I think there’s a kernel of truth in your statement, that if all women stopped wearing makeup nobody would feel pressured to wear it, I get the sense (correct me if I’m wrong) that the subtext in what you say is that women should therefore not wear makeup, so as to decrease that pressure?

That, I disagree with completely. It’s everyone’s right to do what they like with their own face. Trying to say that women should stop wearing it for the sake of changing a much bigger societal cultural issue is pretty offensive. Why is it okay to tell anyone to not wear makeup? That’s just as controlling and patronising as saying everyone should wear it.

CaptSkippy · 02/11/2018 15:45

Who is judging and belittle women? And in what way?

Stating that perpertuating the status quo in your own behavior, regardless of the circumtances, does have an effect on those around and the next generation is not belittling someone. You can't claim to live your life in a vacuum. Everything you do has an effect on something and everything other people do has an effect on you, whether indirect or not.

shearwater · 02/11/2018 15:50

All of this crap

Every single woman wearing make up is adding to the pressure on all other women to bow to societal norms and buy into their value being determined by their appearance.

There are any number of posters on here who don't engage with make up, who cited that their own mothers also didn't

Think what message you are sending to your daughters when you tell them 'oh you can be whatever you want, look however you want' but then can't personally leave the house without a full face of make up on yourself

is patronising.

Men on the whole don't wear make-up, they don't wear skirts and they don't wear pink. How is making women confirm to default male norms of appearance, and belittling them if they don't, changing the status quo?

woollyheart · 02/11/2018 15:53

I think we are just saying that there is no need to wear makeup specifically to further your career unless you are in a business (acting, makeup retail etc) that requires it.

I've put a lot of job descriptions together. I've never had well groomed and must wear makeup on one.

shearwater · 02/11/2018 16:08

Quite, and I think it's appalling if there is any expectation to wear make-up in a job, and it's the OP's choice, as I said early in the thread.

I have large eyes, long eyelashes, a full mouth, defined cheekbones, naturally wavy thick fair hair, large breasts, a slim waist and a rounded bottom. I eat healthily, don't drink much and am fit from running, lifting weights and yoga. Regardless of whether I wear make-up, or even if I did considerably less exercise, my appearance conforms to many societal norms of beauty.

What should I do about the undue pressure I am putting women under by maintaining an appearance which conforms to such norms? Have a breast reduction or change my appearance through surgery?

CaptSkippy · 02/11/2018 16:09

No, shear it is the truth. Your children watch what you do and copy a hell of a lot of it without even realizing. If you find the truth partonising, that's your issue.

SlipperyNettle · 02/11/2018 16:09

This thread reminds me of this article

reductress.com/post/you-should-stop-wearing-makeup-because-im-beautiful/

It has a lot of truth given it’s satire! It’s a privilege to be able to be happy with your appearance without makeup, and not one that everyone shares. Some people genuinely dislike the way they look without it and choose to use the tools at their disposal so that they can be happier with their appearance, more confident as they face the day. And more power to them. I imagine very few of the non makeup writers who criticise makeup wearers do absolutely nothing to improve their appearance, such as hair cuts, hair dye, straightening or curling, Spanx, heels, teeth whitening or braces, shaving, skincare.

shearwater · 02/11/2018 16:10

Your children watch what you do and copy a hell of a lot of it without even realizing.

Great, I'm a fucking excellent role model, so they will turn out just fine.

CaptSkippy · 02/11/2018 16:13

Great, I'm a fucking excellent role model, so they will turn out just fine.

Right. Time will tell, I suppose.

SlipperyNettle · 02/11/2018 16:17

I grew up seeing my mum never leave the house without lipstick, mascara and foundation. It genuinely didn’t impact my decision to start wearing makeup or not (obviously I can’t speak for my subconscious), I didn’t assume all women did that, it was just a neutral thing about her.

I genuinely wouldn’t notice if someone wears it or not out and about unless I specifically thought to look as it’s just such a non issue. Only exception would be if I see someone do something really unusual that looked amazing, I’d appreciate it as art.

Xenia · 02/11/2018 17:03

Slippery on this
"such as hair cuts, hair dye, straightening or curling, Spanx, heels, teeth whitening or braces, shaving, skincare".
UI dye may hair at home (£7) because I think I prefer it not to be white. I would never straighten or curl or use spanx or whiten teeth or have braces and I don't shave at all. I put moisturises on when I wake up.

I thinkw e can all make our own choices about these things and nor have i said on this thread women should not wear make up. They can do what they like with it. Hair dye is actually the biggest difference between how women mmy age (50s) lok and women 100 years ago or more although plenty of women my age choose to have grey or white hair. it isn to a competition to see who does the most or the least , Just be content with yourselves and do what you choose.

Gabilan · 02/11/2018 17:34

Seeing my mum carefully and painfully pluck out her eyebrows, then draw them back in again with a pencil, was one of the things that put me off makeup. Make of that what you will.

user1499173618 · 02/11/2018 18:39

Straightening teeth in later life is a great way to preserve them.

yorkrose · 02/11/2018 20:20

I don't wear make up unless I'm going somewhere special and then it's only lipstick and mascara. I always end up with panda eyes and the lip stick on my chin. Once sat through an evening dinner meeting and wondered why everyone starred at me weirdly, arrived home and appeared to have two black eyes after peering in the mirror, must have rubbed my eyes forgetting the mascara. I think it's safer for me not to wear make up!

Op, just wear makeup if you feel comfortable wearing it.

mostdays · 03/11/2018 14:26

Ah, so the definition of closed minded is not agreeing with you skippy? Good to know.

I'm fucking sick to death of being told what I should wear and who I should be. I don't care about the opinion of men or women who think I should wear makeup and I don't care about the opinion of men and women who think I shouldn't wear makeup. But I do care when I am told a choice is not mine to make. If I prefer makeup what right does someone have to tell me I should not wear it because my doing so makes them feel pressured? You're not liberating me or making me free with this. "Don't do what X says, do what I say..." That's not empowering me, it's telling me to swap one dictator for another.

My face is fine naked. It's not a face that's ever going to win acclaim for living up to societal standards of beauty but it's fine. It does what a face needs to do. I just like applying makeup to it. If I don't feel like putting any on then I don't. And if I do feel like putting on then I do, because it's my face and my choice and I'll be damned if I'm going to be told what to do with it by anyone.

Xenia · 03/11/2018 15:37

Yes, I think most of us agree - do what you like. I have rarely seen a woman with make up I thought looked better with it on but that's just my taste.

Far too many people tell women what to do. Let them decide for themselves.

Vixxxy · 03/11/2018 16:14

I have always worn makeup to work..for at least 6 years now, I kind of feel pressured to do so. I wish I could just take the looks and bitchy comments about how 'ill' I look but no, its easier to just paint myself up and make out like this is what I want to do.

I used to not bother. Then I went on a work nights out and got a bit dolled up and after that the guys kept commenting on how good I had looked then and how I look ill/like a zombie otherwise. Its bullying really, but I just adjusted my behavior rather than fight it.

CaptSkippy · 03/11/2018 19:01

That really makes me sad, Vixxxy. I remember the boys on high school already openly and frequently commenting on the looks of the girls in class. At hat age they already felt to judge the girls' value as a human being based on their looks. It felt really negative to hear such comments, whether they were about me or not.

CaptSkippy · 03/11/2018 19:06

Most, where do you get the idea that people are telling you what to do? You seems to be putting words in people's mouths or seeing meanings in things that are not directed at you personally. So why do you take it so pesonally and get angry and defensive when you are not even being attacked?

Xenia · 03/11/2018 19:06

(One reason I prefer single sex secondary schools including for my daughters who thankfully therefore had none of that kind of comment)

HurricaneFliss · 03/11/2018 19:52

Xenia - my DDs have never had these comments from the boys at secondary school. Mixed sex school has been great for them - having lads as friends and working alongside them.

BlatheringWuther · 04/11/2018 11:49

Those getting angry about being told they're socialised into accepting make up - why do you think men don't wear it?

We're all socialised. We're a social species. That does not mean that feminist thinking patronisingly labels you as brainwashed, so there is no need to get defensively angry about it. All it says is that none of us make choices in a vacuum. All of us are given a limited set of options to choose from. The system is at fault. Not you. But you can choose to reject the system when shown an alternative, instead of blaming those who demonstrate it.

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