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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Gender reassignment in a relationship

114 replies

Kittycuddles · 30/10/2018 21:51

Okai.

So slightly controversial topic I know.

Me and my dp were chatting and got on to the subject of, if one person in a relationship was to 'change' gender, whether dressing up in opposite gender clothes, full surgery or just self iD'ing.

And I guess my aibu is that we both had different views. I guess the two options of thoughts are some people may think that they would still love someone if they 'changed cause it's not their body that they love, but them. Whilst others may think that they don't have a need to love them maybe? Because they are not 'gay

And this leaves me really confused. He said he would leave me (jokingly) and it had me wondering, would others dp's really say that and MEAN it?

I think I'm lucky enough that he wouldn't leave me because he knows he loves ME for ME.

But what do you lot think? Mn's vote. Is this reasonable to leave a partner for this and would you or your dp?

Or is is unreasonable to think they may still love you and see the other persons point of view?

OP posts:

WhyAmISoCold · 30/10/2018 21:56

Yes it's reasonable to want to leave. If my DH told me he wanted to live as a woman, he would do it without me. That's not what I signed up for. I would fully expect him to leave me if I wanted to live as a man too.

BastardGoDarkly · 30/10/2018 21:57

I couldn't fancy my husband if he tried to look like a woman. (Although I'm quite capable of fancying actual women)

So it'd be a definite no from me.

chaoscategorised · 30/10/2018 22:00

There's two parts of it, the fact that my OH fell in love with me as a person, and me as a woman. If I told him I was a man, he may still love me as a person, but the attraction to me as a woman would no longer be there because I wouldn't BE a woman.

So I think it's more than reasonable that someone would say they weren't going to stay in a relationship in that scenario! Although of course YMMV and I've read about loads of relationships where this wasn't the case, and some people, particularly demi or asexual people, whose love doesn't necessarily have a physical/sexual component, so then in that case I guess it could be different.

Unicornandbows · 30/10/2018 22:01

It's similar to someone saying they want a polyamorous, gay or bisexual relationship as it completely changes the dynamic of the relationship.

I would end my relationship..

hidinginthenightgarden · 30/10/2018 22:07

I wouldn't stay. I would feel like our relationship was a lie. I married a man, I am attracted to men and not women.

ICJump · 30/10/2018 22:09

I would be an end to the relationship for me. It highly unlikely given he has similar GC ideas as me.

WhenISnappedAndFarted · 30/10/2018 22:16

I love my DF to pieces and can't imagine my life without him, however, if he started dressing up as a female or wanting to change into a female then I don't know if I could stay with him.

I think we'd still be best friends but I just don't fancy females.

WereFox · 30/10/2018 22:17

I don't think either is BU. Attraction is subjective.

WereFox · 30/10/2018 22:17

And usually unreasonable :D

Alaaya · 30/10/2018 22:19

It sort of did happen to me. Not a husband, but my boyfriend at uni told me fairly early on that he liked to cross dress and then later that he wanted to live as a woman and be 'she'.

Our relationship survived that. It was hard, I'll admit, for lots of reasons, but I loved him and then her. We broke up later, but for other reasons, and are still vaguely in touch and friends. However, I don't think that it's unreasonable to leave if important aspects of your relationship change. I think it's unreasonable to be nasty about it, which I sometimes see on here, although I get that no one is exactly pleasant if they are in the throws of a break up. But I've seen the same kind of nastiness if a partner comes out as gay or whatever - I guess it's the loss of not just your relationship but your understanding of what the relationship was and your memories of that time.

ComtesseDeSpair · 30/10/2018 22:21

I stayed with a former partner when she (now he) transitioned to a man. But he had always been masculine/butch, and I’m bisexual so aesthetically it didn’t pose an enormous dilemma for me.

I can completely understand somebody not wanting to stay with a transitioning partner. However we want to dress it up and claim that love is about inner beauty and the person’s mind, looks and fancying your partner are hugely attractive.

FissionChips · 30/10/2018 22:23

Of course it’s reasonable to leave, it’s reasonable to end a relationship for any reason.
Some people would stay, some wouldn’t. I certainly wouldn’t stay.

PinkHeart5914 · 30/10/2018 22:23

Would I stay with my dh if he declared he was having an op and becoming a woman? Umm no I wouldn’t because I like men, I’m attracted to men, I want to be with a man. I would also feel like my marriage had all been a big fat lie

I think of I wanted to have a cock, my dh would leave too tbh

However if dh wanted to just wear a dress now and then, meh 🤷🏻‍♀️ Can’t say I’d be bothered

BestZebbie · 30/10/2018 22:23

I think it would depend on the individual circumstances - if the other partner were OK with it or knew from the start then no problem.

If it was introduced as a sudden changing of 'ground rules' in an established marriage then I'd predict a divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, although a percentage of couples would rearrange their relationship to accommodate it instead of breaking up.

greendale17 · 30/10/2018 22:27

Definite no from me too

tenorladybeaker · 31/10/2018 03:57

It's going to be different for each relationship, and would also be different depending on which partner was changing.

For me, I think that if DH wanted to dress according to female norms I wouldn't have a particular problem with that. Gender stereotypes are a prison to men as well as women although the men get a comfier cage.

If he wanted to claim he actually WAS a woman and expected me to validate that, it would be the end of the relationship as that kind of misogynistic idea of womanhood as a feeling in a man's head rather than a biological reality would be unacceptable. Such an attitude would be an absolute demonstration that this was no longer the person I married. I believe the law currently allows in such circumstances that the marriage can be legally annulled - ie declared to have never really happened and I'd be looking into that rather than divorce if possible.

If it was me changing - I think DH's attitude would be that he loves the individual rather than the specific body shape so he'd probably be happy to stay. However if I was making a revolutionary change to my "gender presentation" I suspect I would be wanting to restart with a clean slate living as the "real me" and would consider my marriage part of the old "not really me" life, so woulf prefer to leave him anyway.

One of the aspects of the GRA consultation that didn't get nearly the same level of publicity as self-ID is to do with this very question. Currently the law only allows a marriage to survive one party transitioning and getting a GRC if both parties agree they want to stay married. I think this is right, as such a revolutionary change could well be a deal breaker for many people. There is a route for annulment which is very important especially to religious people as it gives then the status of someone who never married rather than a divorcee. A potential change that could be included in GRA reforms as and when they are proposed is to do away with spousal consent, meaning that the law assumes you will stay married despite any transition. If either party is unhappy they would have to follow normal divorce proceedings to terminate the marriage, and "he changed his identity to become someone else entirely" isn't automatically recognised as unreasonable behaviour so it wouldn't necessarily be granted.

Original poster

Kittycuddles · 31/10/2018 05:25

Thank you all for your replies!

I see where you are all coming from so thank you! I think I was just thinking of people wanting to change and be true to themselves but not lose everything they love through it. And that made me kinda sad..

But you've helped me see grs is a full body and personality change really. And just self identifying or changing dress is different to actually BELIEVING you are a woman/man and vice versa.

OP posts:

ALittleBitofVitriol · 31/10/2018 05:32

If my husband declared that he was becoming a woman, after being together for decades and watching me birth his children, I would be so insulted. He knows darn well that 'woman' isn't a feeling in a man's head. No, our relationship wouldn't survive it.
I'm quite sure he wouldn't stick around either.

IdaBWells · 31/10/2018 05:37

We ARE our bodies, our mind is not floating around separate from our body. By changing your body you are changing yourself it’s just not true to say otherwise.

I am very happily married but I know that both DH and I could not stay married if the other one decided to live as the other sex because that is just not what we want or need from each other.

sobeyondthehills · 31/10/2018 05:54

This, I would have no problem if my DP wanted to wear a dress, I would have a problem if he wanted to be a woman

NotANotMan · 31/10/2018 05:58

If my partner stated they wanted to 'live as a woman' I would have serious political and ethical issues with their understanding of gender, power and sexism so we'd probably split up over that before any physical changes.
Would I stay with a man who started to wear makeup and wigs and dresses? No, I wouldn't find that attractive.
Would I stay with a man who suppressed his testosterone, grew hormonal breast buds and contemplated removing his penis? Hell no

BigGreenOlives · 31/10/2018 06:00

I’ve known two women with transvestite husbands, one left her husband very quickly after she found out, he wanted to wear women’s clothes at home and she didn’t want her toddler daughters to see their father dressed up as a cartoon version of a woman - all thigh high plastic boots & corsets. The other woman has not had children and has stayed with her partner for years. She’s told him that if he has breast implants she’ll leave him, that’s her line. I’m not sure why she stays with him as he doesn’t seem very nice to her.

ButchyRestingFace · 31/10/2018 06:10

And just self identifying or changing dress is different to actually BELIEVING you are a woman/man and vice versa.

Not sure what you mean there, OP. Surely people self ID because they believe they are such and such?

Either way, I’d be out the door like a hare out of a trap.

SummerGems · 31/10/2018 06:22

I have a friend who came out as transgender eight years into their marriage. At the time it came as a shock to her but she says now that looking back the signs were there.

In the beginning she decided to stay with him/her, they lived separate lives in the same house but remained together as she was of the belief that marriage is for life etc.

However, a year into this arrangement he (now she) decided that she wanted to start seeing other men, and that was where my friend drew the line. The ex took hormones etc and has been officially re-assigned as a woman and because this was before the age of gay marriage their marriage had to be annulled rather than ended through divorce.

It would be a dealbreaker for me. Not sure why anyone would be surprised at that tbh.

ohello · 31/10/2018 06:29

Even if the transperson doesn't start out subscribing to certain beliefs, such as, whelp now they ARE the opposite sex, almost all of them end up where they DO believe that. So while the person may say, "oh I just want to wear a dress on the weekend (if a transwoman) or "oh I just want to wear a dress shirt and tie (if a transman) on the weekends", they quickly morph into, "I AM the opposite sex now".

And then they slide down the rabbit hole of now everything has to be all about them, they no longer have an equal partnership where both people's needs are important. Instead, the relationship becomes two people, one of whom is having a childish temper tantrum all day long and the other one must default into the parent role. Not saying that happens to everybody but it's super common.

There are a couple "transwidow" threads around here somewhere, both with 800+ comments where the spouses discuss all this if you are interested.

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