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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Gender reassignment in a relationship

114 replies

Kittycuddles · 30/10/2018 21:51

Okai.

So slightly controversial topic I know.

Me and my dp were chatting and got on to the subject of, if one person in a relationship was to 'change' gender, whether dressing up in opposite gender clothes, full surgery or just self iD'ing.

And I guess my aibu is that we both had different views. I guess the two options of thoughts are some people may think that they would still love someone if they 'changed cause it's not their body that they love, but them. Whilst others may think that they don't have a need to love them maybe? Because they are not 'gay

And this leaves me really confused. He said he would leave me (jokingly) and it had me wondering, would others dp's really say that and MEAN it?

I think I'm lucky enough that he wouldn't leave me because he knows he loves ME for ME.

But what do you lot think? Mn's vote. Is this reasonable to leave a partner for this and would you or your dp?

Or is is unreasonable to think they may still love you and see the other persons point of view?

OP posts:
LakieLady · 31/10/2018 08:19

I think I'd still love DP if he transitioned. As long as he was still kind, funny, clever and and an excellent companion.

The sex thing would be much trickier though.

Scrumplestiltskin · 31/10/2018 08:21

I'm bisexual, but it would be a total dealbreaker for me. The inherent sexism would be the biggest issue, along with the unnatural feminisation, the way it turns the female body into an "aesthetic" a man can try to mimic, and the self absorbtion involved in it, would totally and utterly put me off. I would be repelled in every way possible - ideological, emotional, physical, etc.
I love my DH, but I love him for the person I know that he is. If he suddenly started acting like a different person, he wouldn't be the person I love anymore. He'd be a stranger, in place of the man I loved.

Bezalelle · 31/10/2018 08:26

This is such an interesting thread. It shows the reality of the issue, when you peel away the TRA vitriol and "transwomen ARE women" schtick.

Alaaya · 31/10/2018 08:42

Bezalelle - I think it's a thread probably hugely skewed by the MN demographic though. I know multiple couples who have stuck together through transition and more who broke up for unrelated reasons and don't have these hugely negative feelings. But I suspect those are people who would not be on MN because MN is known as being primarily a space for people with GC views.

ButchyRestingFace · 31/10/2018 08:51

I know multiple couples who have stuck together through transition and more who broke up for unrelated reasons and don't have these hugely negative feelings

Given that being trans is (still) relatively uncommon, I’m surprised you know so many couples affected by the issue.

tenorladybeaker · 31/10/2018 09:08

@MQv2 ^That's really interesting.
Does that mean that you could also potentially use self ID to protect assets.
Identify as the other gender, state you no longer want the marriage to continue and then dissolve it by way of annulment rather than divorce^

No the lawmakers did think to close that loophole fortunately. The division of assets etc all happens the same as it would with a divorce.

sadkoala · 31/10/2018 09:31

I'm straight and I'm attracted to men. So no I couldn't stay with my DP if he was to become a she.
I could potentially still love him and care for him but not in a romantic or sexual way, there would be no attraction there and no grounds for a relationship.

HellenaHandbasket · 31/10/2018 09:35

Tbh, if transpeople are to be believed and they are in fact the other gender, then they wouldn't expect a straight partner to stay in a relationship with them. I'm not bisexual, why would I want to be with my husband if he were a woman?

museumum · 31/10/2018 09:36

If my dh told me after 20 years that his “true self” was female I’d feel deceived and lied to.
I’d also have issues myself i think if he started wearing makeup (I don’t) wigs (my hair is short) or heels (I don’t).

Notacluewhatthisis · 31/10/2018 09:37

I think it's a thread probably hugely skewed by the MN demographic though.

Yes, perhaps. There are far more people that understand the issues here. Though I have seen changes in rl, ironically helped by the media being forced to call a rapist 'she'.

However I real life I think a lot of people will feel they need to try and make it work because of their vows (forced into it) and because they believe if you love someone you stand by them.

The fact that a lot of mners are aware of the potential issues, their opinion on the matter and the choices that they have, is only a good thing, imo.

JamAtkins · 31/10/2018 09:50

I'm bisexual with a male partner. You wouldn't see me for dust. No matter how many times I hear 'Transwomen are women' when it comes down to brass tacks they don't have any of the physical features of women's bodies that I am attracted to. Without being graphic, they would not be to my 'taste'. What would be worse in relationship terms is what, at best, I would describe as inward facing, which I suppose goes on a scale towards unbridled narcissism. That and the whole misogyny/homophobia of the movement. My male DP would not be 'him' as a transwomen, allowing me to continue to love him for 'him'. He'd likely be a boorish, sexist, self absorbed, arsehole. Also I'm just not into the kink of AGP and wouldn't want my sex life revolving around it any more than I'd want to be in a sexual relationship with a sadist or masochist or voyeur or furry.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/10/2018 10:07

I think it bears saying that if we are considering adult transitioners that overwhelmingly what we'd be considering here are marriages where he decides for whatever reason he is a she, not where she decides she is a he. So the issue here as it plays out in probably 99% of cases is whether a woman would leave a man who decided to identify in whatever way as a woman. The transwidows' threads here are instructive because they highlight how (i) this is a sexual fetish for many of their exes. It starts in sex and manifests initially mainly in him being arounsed or only being aroused when he is wearing women's clothes - and those clothes are the kinds of clothes that one normally associates with 'making men horny when worn by women' - think stockings, heels, skimpy lingerie etc. (ii) It starts for this large group of men in the bedroom and ends up as his reality which everyone else is expected to believe - i.e. he wants to wear such clothes full time. (iii) The man concerned becomes increasingly narcissistic, expecting others to put aside their tastes and wishes to accommodate the new him. (iv) Very rarely does his new found femininity translate to cleaning up vomit, looking after elderly relatives or doing the housework - that's still cunty work. (v) As it progresses he talks about 'top surgery', but very rarely 'bottom surgery' because the dick is where it all happens. (vi) there are often instances where he is found trying on his wife's undies and other clothes at some point in all this - and wanking while doing so.

Would I stick with my OH if he suddenly coveted my nice sensible cotton maxi pants? No fucking way.

OTOH there are other men who I suppose were always conflicted and for whom the gender dysphoria is something less sexual and more about identity - I think this is more complicated but I still would not stay and I'd feel frankly lied to that he always had an inkling he'd want to live as a woman but instead of figuring out he got with me instead. Same with gay men - I've known more than one who knew they were gay but still got married and when they 'came out' everyone was suppposed to say how brave they were and not commiserate with their wives - who, in one case, was infected with HIV and died (ex is still alive) ...

Andro · 31/10/2018 10:12

My marriage would be over! I married a man, I took vows as we became husband and wife - him transitioning would be a fundamental betrayal of those vows.

(The mental image of my 6ft 5in, 17st rugby playing husband in a pretty dress is horrifyingly amusing!)

Upslidedown · 31/10/2018 10:27

I'd be straight on the phone to a solicitor. It'd be over because he'd lied about who he was. That'd be unforgivable even before the fact I'm straight came into play.

fatpatsthong · 31/10/2018 10:29

I know of a couple who initially stayed together - male to female husband diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

They agreed to co parent but have an open marriage removed from the family home. I believe their sexual relationship stopped as the husband then only identified as interested in men.

By all accounts this worked for a year or so until the wife met someone and started a relationship in secret. Total disaster on every count including violence on both sides, police and social services. The m2f party was always a bit of an arse and could only see things through their own lens so we were expecting things to fall apart but not so badly iyswim.

Tragic really - the kids are totally screwed up (were early teens).

FishCanFly · 31/10/2018 10:30

I'd dump him/run away at once. I married a man. Makes me gag even thinking that he'd fancy to become a woman.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/10/2018 10:36

Makes me gag even thinking that he'd fancy to become a woman

I agree and I can't imagine it - but I do worry about the effect of porn on men and things I've been hearing from younger women about what's out there that their men-folk get into. I do think that a lot of this is about that unexplored murky pond of desire.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 31/10/2018 10:36

I would still love him, but we would only be friends moving forward

And i doubt i would leave the family home, so it would probably appear to some people that i was ok with it and was still with him...which i wouldnt be

And its fuck all aboit being GC, i have sexual feelings towards men, not women

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 31/10/2018 10:41

It also matters that hormones can change how someone relates, including the gender to whom they feel attracted.

Wait, what? Hormones can change your sexual orientation??

I'm pretty sure that's not true. I mean the idea that sexual orientation can be cured changed with a chemical substance is... well.... I mean I'm just pretty sure that's not true.

StroppyWoman · 31/10/2018 10:42

It would be over, because everything I'd understood about him would be a lie.
I'd be furious and humiliated to think a 30 year relationship was build on artifice.

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 31/10/2018 10:42

Interesting to see some people saying they have sexual feelings towards men and not women...

If one's husband transitioned, would he be a woman then? Would one be in a lesbian relationship with them? So, they would be both a lesbian and a woman, having been a man?

...interesting.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/10/2018 10:46

*If one's husband transitioned, would he be a woman then? Would one be in a lesbian relationship with them? So, they would be both a lesbian and a woman, having been a man?

...interesting*

No - he'd be a pretend woman and not the man they knew.

drspouse · 31/10/2018 10:49

If my DH said he'd like to wear more feminine clothes, but was still a man, I like to think I'd be OK with that.

Beyond that, I'm assuming this is something that has been hidden for a long time and wasn't mentioned starting the relationship. So that is a no.

Sexual attraction is to, er, a sex, not a gender. So if someone wants to say they are a woman (while they are actually a man) and wants to appear as a woman (gender presentation) they have not changed sex but it's the long-standing hidden nature of the issue.

Women who date/sleep with men who identify as women are attracted to the male sex and if you've always known your partner is a man who identifies as a woman that's a bit different. Not for me, and neither partner is a lesbian, but not deception.

This also moves into the issue of whether it's deception to avoid telling a new partner that your gender presentation may not match your sex (probably more of an issue with women who identify as men because let's face it the opposite are less likely to pass). Seems to me like openness in a relationship is the only way to go. If you deceive your (new, or 30 year relationship) partner you have only yourself to blame.

gamerchick · 31/10/2018 10:51

I'd be straight on the phone to a solicitor. It'd be over because he'd lied about who he was

Yep ^

I would wave him off into his new life but I wouldn't be a part of it. Thankfully my husband likes being a man.

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 31/10/2018 10:51

No - he'd be a pretend woman and not the man they knew.

Well yes, very probably not the man they knew.

But some are suggesting they wouldn't be into it because they don't fancy women... so not that they don't fancy this new man, but that they don't fancy women.

I just found the notion interesting. Around these parts, anyway.

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