Will my son go to prison?

[MrsPortious]

DS is 17. He has been arrested before for assault but it was dealt with by youth justice serve so officially not charged.

Early this week, he was arrested for affect. An unprovoked attack on an unknown male, caught in CCTV, where he was seen kicking him over 20 times in the head and face. Unknown male has not come forward. Behind the scenes, DS was already being investigated for threats of arson and threats to kill.
Solicitor says it has prison written all over it. I can’t get my head around that. He’s currently released without bail pending further enquiries.

Will he go to prison?

I’ve tried so hard to get him help. Have referred him to social devices, drug counselling, Cahms ... cahms are the only ones still involved.

I’m just stuck in limbo now waiting for a court date. I have no support and it’s killing me. His father was supposed to be having him this weekend but “something came up”. I don’t get the opportunity of “something coming up”. I have it 24/7.

The CCTV is so sickening, it’s the kind of thing that will go viral on Facebook if the press gets hold of it. DS cares not one bit. When solicitor told him it could be a prison sentence, he didn’t react at all. Solicitor rang me the next day to say he’d never seen such a violence assault and he’d never known such an emotionless response from the offender.

Will my Christmas Day involve me signing into the visitors book at HMP? I have nobody to talk to about this.

Hi @MrsPortious . I am and still in the same situation as you. We have a thread that I can't link to on my phone. It's a support group for families of prisoners and offenders. We don't judge. I see other posters have told you to come pay a visit. Please do. We are all victims one way or another.

Here's the link for Drinks thread:

What to take to prison 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/crime/3231363-what-to-take-to-prison-2

I do hope you'll find your way over there. You'll find a lot of practical support and understanding from parents who know exactly what you're going through.

No mitigating circumstances such as mental health because when I’ve tried to get him assessed for ASD/ADHD/psychopathic traits nobody has wanted to know. I was the one that had him arrested the first time.

This could be a younger relative of mine (ADHD diagnosed as a kid, now has a diagnosis of sociopathy from the psychologist on his offender management team). And like you, his mum was the one who got him arrested first time round (it was the only way to stop social services and the NHS playing "pass the parcel" - she kept pleading for help, and each one said it was the other's responsibility).

I have no "wise words", just wanted you to know you're not the only mother I've come across in this situation, and I can honestly say my relative's mum is a lovely woman who did everything she could for her son, he just had problems that all the love and support in the world could not solve.

I think earlier posters who pointed you at the various support threads for relatives of prisoners were probably pointing you at your most useful resource.

You say the victim looked like a drug addict from the CCTV. Forgive me if I'm wrong but seem rather blasé about that and obviously more concerned that don't want your son to be incarcerated. If it was my son, I would demand he be put away! Would you be more concerned if it was a woman or a guy in a suit?

Is it possible the victim was a homeless man? Have the police checked hospitals to see if anyone came in with that description on around that date?

I feel for you OP but if my son launched an unprovoked (as you said yourself) attack, with multiple kicks to the head, on a vulnerable person after separate incidents of assault and trying to smash someone's door down beforehand, then I would be very worried about having him under my roof. Do you have any other DC? I would be sending him to his father's until his court date if you do.

Prison will make him or break him. Unfortunately his actions are not that of a teen going off the rails, they're much more serious, so I doubt it will make him.

It's all well and good getting a psychiatric assessment done but will he engage? Family counselling might be an option, but needs to involve his father obviously, to get to the bottom of why he feels he can behave this way?

You can talk about posters being sanctamonious however the reality is as been said below.

And of course people’s primary sympathy is going to be with the victim. The man could be lying dead in a ditch for all we know and he is also someone’s son. Possibly a father too.

The OP is in a bad position and its awful that her son has put her there, however he will be incarcerated for this and imo rightly so.

Is the solicitor able to arrange a psychiatric assessment? It sounds as if there may be issues that need to be investigated.

I really hope he does go to prison.

Firstly, so he realises his animalistic behaviour has consequences and hopefully they will work with him to reform him.

And, some much needed respite for you, OP.

People saying he's better off in prison, he'll get support there has clearly never been inside one. It's yet another dramatically underfunded, understaffed state funded institution, public prisons in particular are often on 23 hour lock down (private prisons have stipulations in their contracts that state how many hours inmates have to be out of cells and engaged in purposeful activity, government run prisons don't). Stop reading the daily mail and read the recent inspectorate reports, HMP Bedford being one of the latest but look up forest bank and Birmingham too. Only seven percent of prisons have been rated as good everything else is below. Conditions are often unsanitary, rats, showers only once a week, ever increasing numbers of assaults and self harm. What do you think putting an angry 17 year old in those conditions will achieve? It'll only serve to make him frightened, angrier and witness to horrific treatment of human beings, how is that going to help him change? I hope he gets a suspended sentence and the support he needs OP, because ultimately rehabilitation is what protects the public.

I'm sorry you have to be the parent of a man like your son. He sounds psychopathic.

I hope he gets a suspended sentence and the support he needs OP, because ultimately rehabilitation is what protects the public.

So how do you protect the public whilst he is being rehabilitated. A suspended sentance where he could do exactly the same thing again or even worse. What do you suggest then?

Yes, I hope that the op's son does get the help he needs in prison. However, more than this, I hope that he is taken off the streets. He is an immediate danger to the public.

poster Ruby55n Sun 28-Oct-18 18:21. In response to AnnieAnoniMouse's comment about this OP's son's victim, I think that it is unfair to try and tarnish the family of the offender with your remarks. It was not the lady who is worried about her son going to prison who kicked the victim - so often, the whole family and any other friends or relatives get the blame for someone else's wrongdoing. We should not judge innocent people

I SAID NO SUCH THING!

I think you are confusing something I QUOTED with something I SAID.

Please be more careful.

I can’t help feel for you 😪 it must be so hard and having little support. I don’t have any advice as such but I would just like to add this.

My uncle was a bit of a trouble maker in. His younger years, he was violent towards different people including his pregnant girlfriend and other people, vandalising things etc. He was a bloody nightmare. My childhood is full of these awful memories of him.

He went to prison for GBH about 15 years ago and a 9 month prison sentence actually helped him a lot and put him on the straight and narrow. It also give my grandparents a break from him. He came out a different person. Still a bit of a wild one but very much a changed person.

I wish you the best of luck!

So many people think that being bailed with no conditions/ very minimal ones "pending investigation" basically means they got away with it.

It means the opposite. The more serious a crime the heavier the burden of proof, therefore the Police need to be sure, be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, get it past the CPS and into a court room.

So yeah, he is likely to be going away. They just want to make sure he won't get a not guilty and will get the longest possible sentence. Prepare yourself and your boy for jail.

I wouldn't expect it to be done by Xmas though if it's recent, these things can drag out a while...

Maybe prison will be the wake up call he needs? Maybe not.

@SillySallySingsSongs electronic curfew, mental health support, intensive supervision by youth services including emotional and anger management. Exclusion zone from the town centre, barring from all licenced premises, plenty of options to manage risk in the community. The reoffending rates are much higher for those who go to custody than those who are managed outside, and if he breaches any of his conditions, or isn't engaging with the support then he'll go to prison, but don't exit it to change anything, all it is is a punitive measure.

Baby spider - that depends. I have worked in a juvenile establishment (14-18), a young offenders insitute (16-21) and an adult establishment (18+) so his incarceration can depend on many factors such as where he is currently living, what his release terms will be, how crowded the current prison population is, does he need cahms and if so which kind of help is avalaible at which prisons, what he is actually sentenced for (crime), the length of his sentence and his mental health. All will impact where he is sent to prison. For example a very very distant relative of my husband cannot be allowed to reside in any prison within the county I live in because both my father is an osg, and I have worked in prisons less than two years ago.

I feel for you but I think you need counselling for you.

You've done all you can -short of kicking him out of home -which might be an option.
By taking the blame -or feeling guilty -you need to realise this is HIS behaviour not yours.
Regardless of the causes of his behaviour -he is one second away from killing someone -and that someone could be you.

You've tried to get support. The solicitor is telling you what you need to hear. He needs to go to prison - to stop someone dying.

I can't comment what I would do - I would think carefully if you want him in your home -or if social services could step in now and that would be better?

You need support for you. You have done your best, the fault is not with you. He might have a MH disorder that hasn't been diagnosed -but some people comment offences and don't have MH issues.

Either way until he is remorseful you (IMHO) need to step back and keep your distance.

@MrsStrowman You seriously think any of that us going to make any difference at the moment?

He isn't remorseful and doesn't care that he coukd have murdered someone.

sorry youre going through this op.
if there is no witness it is unlikely unless he admits to it. Police base their evidence on the suspect admitting things which is why so many go no comment and even if you are not guilty no comment is always best.

I feel this will go to crown court but crown has a higher chance of not guilty then mag because it is no doubt.

either way you understand he needs help has he told you why he is so angry?

I’m sorry you are going through this OP.

Some really horrible and unfair posts on here. It sounds like the OP has tried her best, and is in no way condoning her sons behaviour. It sounds like he may have something like a personality disorder, of which there are many types including psychopathic personality disorder.

People develop personality disorders for all sorts of reasons, including parental divkurce, bullying etc. It doesn’t automatically mean bad parenting, and it’s really unfair to blame the OP for this.

Seriously, why are we blaming a woman who has tried to do the right things for the actions of a 17 year old man? Why is it always the closest females fault?

I can’t imagine how hard it must be OP, having to go on parenting a child who has done such awful things, and who I imagine you don’t like very much. I’d suggest you get some counselling to try and make sense of everything that’s happened, and give you a safe space to talk about it without judgement. I think all you can do for your son now is practical support, going with him to court etc and letting him know you’ll be there for him when he decides to try and turn his life around.

God some people really can't help being sanctimonious at any opportunity. Not really helpful to the OP.

Oh and BTW this could happen to you

Gunpowder is right - OP admits that her son deserves punishment, but it just takes a drunken brawl that ends accidentally in serious injury, or even a false accusation/identification, and someone you love could end up in jail.

And you don't stop loving your child because they have committed a crime, no matter how dreadful that crime is.

OP - I can't help, but your heart must be broken that your son has ruined his own and other people's lives like this. I hope you can find support on this forum - it certainly looks as though your son is going to get a custodial sentence. His father sounds like a waste of space, so you will have to be strong for both of you.

Hopefully this will be the wake-up he needs to set him back on the straight and narrow But whatever happens you will need someone on your side.

I hope the victim recovers wherever they are and that both the OP and her son get appropriate support.

Sadly I think prison will serve little purpose other than to remove him from society for a bit.

You need to speak to your GP and camhs.
Or some other lawyer, support group.
You need more support.
As does he, legally.

His lack of caring and zero responsibility and detachment is classic adhd and ASD behaviour.
He has been failed. By this not being addressed.
Doesn't excuse the 20 times kicking, but something is very wrong here.

Mrsstowman why shouldn’t he be put in prison cause he may be frightened . How frightened do you think his victim was. He must have thought he was going to die worse still he could be dead

Sorry I just wanted to say, I cannot condone violence but also this must be so hard on you OP.

As a mother I know no matter what I would keep loving my child. I might struggle to come to terms with their actions but I would still love them.

There is always sympathy for the family of the victims and condemnation for that of the perpetrators. Do you know what? The saddest people I have ever met are my ex's parents. They had to live knowing he had destroyed their lives, his life and those of their grandchildren, would have been daughter in law etc. Honestly the saddest people I have ever met.

They knew he was a sociopath, that he would fuck up our relationship and his with his kids and they had to live knowing that. That he literally hurt everyone he came into contact with.
Them included.

They were worn down they had tried everything and they had to watch the downward spiral...

Sometimes I think that the parents of sociopaths must be the loneliest people in the world. They are isolated again and again by their children's actions which they have no control over.

Be strong OP, but expect your boy to get sent down. Expect to get to know about email a prisoner and what the canteen sells, expect to send money and stamps and clothes and letters, and don't be surprised if nobody understands why you visit. You will look around and not be the only one, around you will be the parents of rapists and wife beaters and murderers etc. And your boy will be a little fish in a big pond...