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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Will my son go to prison?

307 replies

MrsPortious · 28/10/2018 17:03

DS is 17. He has been arrested before for assault but it was dealt with by youth justice serve so officially not charged.

Early this week, he was arrested for affect. An unprovoked attack on an unknown male, caught in CCTV, where he was seen kicking him over 20 times in the head and face. Unknown male has not come forward. Behind the scenes, DS was already being investigated for threats of arson and threats to kill.
Solicitor says it has prison written all over it. I can’t get my head around that. He’s currently released without bail pending further enquiries.

Will he go to prison?

I’ve tried so hard to get him help. Have referred him to social devices, drug counselling, Cahms ... cahms are the only ones still involved.

I’m just stuck in limbo now waiting for a court date. I have no support and it’s killing me. His father was supposed to be having him this weekend but “something came up”. I don’t get the opportunity of “something coming up”. I have it 24/7.

The CCTV is so sickening, it’s the kind of thing that will go viral on Facebook if the press gets hold of it. DS cares not one bit. When solicitor told him it could be a prison sentence, he didn’t react at all. Solicitor rang me the next day to say he’d never seen such a violence assault and he’d never known such an emotionless response from the offender.

Will my Christmas Day involve me signing into the visitors book at HMP? I have nobody to talk to about this.

OP posts:
JustanotherJP · 28/10/2018 20:04

I am an adult and a youth magistrate and have just seen this.

OP, the majority of the posters here know nothing about the youth justice system. It is very different to the adult courts. Sentencing guidelines as linked do not apply to youth courts.

MrsStrowman and mondaytired ( along with the poster who works p/t with youth offending service) are the only people I have seen that talking sense here. Please take note of their posts rather than the majority on here.

Youth courts have one major aim of sentencing, and that is to reduce reoffending. Adult courts have several aims, including punishment, but youth courts are primarily concerned with stopping the youth from reoffending. That is in the best interests of society as a whole.

As said earlier, a referral order is a conviction so this is not his first offence. That said, we do do our very best to keep young people out of custody as it generally does nothing to help their future.

It may be custody but it may also be a youth rehabilitation order with intensive supervision and surveillance ( known as ISS) as suggested earlier. The youth offending team will interview him in depth and make a recommendation to the magistrates. It may well be that by working intensively with the youth offending team under an ISS, your DS stands a chance of not going to custody. An ISS means 30 hours contact with youth offending every week, electronic tag and other individual requirements. If he does not comply he will be sent back to court.

With regard to it not going to court without a victim statement, if there is clear CCTV I doubt that would matter. I have seen several ‘victimless’ prosecutions (where there is no statement).

For info, Youth court is held in magistrates court but can give up to two years detention and training order, only above that would it go to Crown Court. (For adults, magistrates can only give up to 6 month custodial sentences).

Sorry for the muddled answer, am in a rush to go but hope it has helped.

Gabilan · 28/10/2018 20:09

If I was her, I'd be reporting the son to the police myself

The OP has already said (on p.3) that she has reported her son to the police previously.

SequinsOnEverything · 28/10/2018 20:28

I hope so. I don't want people like him on the streets.

Maybe it will change him? If nothing else, as you've said it will give you a bit of a break.

Honeyroar · 28/10/2018 20:33

I've nothing of use to say, apart from my heart goes out to you. My brother has put my parents through a lot of anguish and heartbreak over his actions over the years. I hope that you have people to lean on and can get some help yourself.

MamaJune · 28/10/2018 20:41

Thanks for you. Prison would be best for him and you.

BirdieInTheHand · 28/10/2018 20:52

I agree with mrsstrowman a YOI is an awful place to be and he certainly won't be "supported".

That aside so much misinformation and unpleasantness on this thread. OP I'm sorry you're dealing with this and I hope you get support.

Given your son doesn't have a previous conviction it's actually quite possible that he won't get a custodial sentence. He will be dealt with by the youth court and all advice to sentencing tribunals now is to avoid custody unless no other option.

SillySallySingsSongs · 28/10/2018 20:57

Given your son doesn't have a previous conviction it's actually quite possible that he won't get a custodial sentence. He will be dealt with by the youth court and all advice to sentencing tribunals now is to avoid custody unless no other option.

Youth services have already dealt with him before for assault then he has gone on to commit this horrendous unprovoked atrack and doesn't seen to care one bit.

Boohissmiss · 28/10/2018 21:03

Birdie would you be saying that if it was your son whose head was literally being kicked in ?

Skyrabbit · 28/10/2018 21:04

I'd echo JustAnotherJp. There is a plethora of just plain wrong advice on here, however well meaning (hoping mine isn't one of them as I work in this field 😳) as well as some good sensible advice.

Quite simply without many more specifics, none of us can tell you if he will definitely go to prison. It depends if this is his first youth court conviction or not; whether he falls 18 before the plea, whether if he is 18 if it stays in the magistrates Court or goes to Crown Court;whether he pleads guilty or not, and if he does, what a PSR says about him; what the actual charge ends up as; etc etc.

Your solicitor is the best bet for all of this advice. The thread others have linked to is invaluable for support for you though.

BirdieInTheHand · 28/10/2018 21:08

boohismiss would I be saying what if my son had been attacked?

That YOIs are terrible places?
That it's entirely possible that he won't get a custodial sentence? Both are factually correct and wouldn't alter regardless of the victim.

Or do you mean I wouldn't be offering the OP support if my son had been assaulted? Perhaps not, but as a mother I would empathise with her situation and I would neither blame her nor seek to vilify her for her sons actions.

DeRigueurMortis · 28/10/2018 21:11

SillySally has it occurred to you (and other posters of your ilk) that repeatedly posting unhelpful and unsupportive posts on a thread for someone:

  • in desperate need of support;
  • who is not responsible for any wrongdoing;
  • is not condoning any wrongdoing...

...is akin to repeatedly and anonymously hurting a vulnerable person? Care to draw any parallels here?

The fact it's not physical doesn't translate to making it acceptable 

SillySallySingsSongs · 28/10/2018 21:17

SillySallyhas it occurred to you (and other posters of your ilk) that repeatedly posting unhelpful and unsupportive posts on a thread for someone:

I have said I feel for the OP. As someone who has had a family member seriously assaulted and nearly died as a result I can see the other side too.

How about you don't make assumptions about others.

is akin to repeatedly and anonymously hurting a vulnerable person? Care to draw any parallels here?

Maybe just maybe yoy know absolutely nothing about posters like and my 'ilk'

MuncheysMummy · 28/10/2018 21:19

I say I REALLY hope it does result in a custodial sentence for him for the safety of the rest of the population! Sounds like it’s the safest place for him to be sorry that must be incredibly hard for you to read but imagine that any one of us on here could be the victims wife or daughter or mother imagine how they are feeling right now...

lemonsorbetinthesun · 28/10/2018 21:19

I guess no one can say 100% if he will go to prison or not. In my experience it can come down to all sorts of factors, this includes the individual judge.

I would say however, given the solicitors comments it does seem likely.

You say he's been released without bail, do you mean released without bail conditions? I'd imagine he is on bail pending further investigations - that does tend to be the norm.

You seem worried about his lack of reaction, potentially denial or putting on a front.

In some ways this could be a turning point for him, I think in your shoes I'd prepare for the worst and prepare him for that also.

MadMum101 · 28/10/2018 21:29

In the OP's situation I would be concerned that there is possibly a vulnerable person lying dead somewhere due my son kicking his head in and I'd be doing everything I could to find him. The last thing I'd be worrying about is whether the little shit might have his liberty curtailed.

thereallochnessmonster · 28/10/2018 21:30

My god, op, he sounds totally out of control. He’s lucky he didn’t kill the man he assaulted. Your ds would be looking at a murder charge then.

Does he have any additional needs? How did he get on at school? Friends? I have no idea why he’s so unbothered by it all. What do CAHMS say?

Prison would give you a break. And it might be the kick in the arse that your ds needs.

DeRigueurMortis · 28/10/2018 21:31

SillySally

Maybe just maybe yoy know absolutely nothing about posters like and my 'ilk'

I'm very sorry a member of your family has been on the receiving end of assault and violence.

I know and comment only on what you've posted on this thread and I stand by my comments. Kicking someone when they are down is something I find very distasteful - physically or online.

I think your contribution and that of many others is profoundly unhelpful and counterproductive towards someone asking for help and support.

mamamedic · 28/10/2018 21:33

Why do you think the victim has not reported the assault? If he was hospitalised, the staff would report it. Could he be dead somewhere?

TheVanguardSix · 28/10/2018 21:36

Yes, he will.
You need to talk. You really do.
He's your son and I understand your pain and your wanting to save him from himself, but he's a violent criminal and a danger to others (let alone himself). Don't enable him.
You really, really ought to be talking this through with a professional. This must be an emotional Everest climb for you. How terribly sad. Please get support.

SillySallySingsSongs · 28/10/2018 21:36

I stand by my comments

As is you're perogative. It doesn't however make you in any way right or what you have said about me and other posters any different to what you have accused me of.

I did say I felt for the OP which is an important part you missed before your attack on me and others.

MadMum101 · 28/10/2018 21:39

It's chilling Mama. 20 kicks to the head. Hardly something you walk away from. OP says he looked like a drug addict. I assume that means dishevelled so could homeless and crawled off somewhere, no one notices his absence. Horrific.

MakeAHouseAHome · 28/10/2018 21:39

I seriously hope he is going to prison for a long long long time!!!!!

Honestly OP he deserves to rot there. Feel sorry for you, but the only person of importance here is the poor victim you son beat to a pulp.

mushlett · 28/10/2018 21:42

I’m so sorry for you, what an awful situation. I would highly recommend you contact a charity called A Band Of Brothers, they do amazing work helping young men just like your son.
Best wishes to you xx

Lovinglifemostly · 28/10/2018 21:43

I hope so

tallulahwullah · 28/10/2018 21:49

I hope so.....the fact that he doesn't care means he needs a rude awakening!
Seriously tough love!