To not want to go to Dubai?

[BrieAndChilli]

DH sister (much younger - in her 20s) is moving to Dubai - her friend moved over there, she’s visited a couple of times had a great time partying so has now got a job out there. All good. She’s leaving end of the month. We will all miss her but not DHs family are talking about going over there for a family holiday next year.
I’ve looked at flights and for the 5 of us it would be about £3k plus then accommodation as I doubt she would be able to put us all up plus spending money etc.
We have never spent that amount of money on a holiday but if she was in austrialia/Thailand/America I would scrimp and save as I know we would have a great time.
However from what I have read about Dubai it’s basically a giant shopping mall in the desert. Fine if all you want when you go on holiday is to sit around the pool all day and eat and drink all night but that’s not us nor the kids.
Would I be unreasonable to say thanks but no thanks I’d rather go on an expensive holiday elsewhere?

Not to drop feed but when we were in our 20s we went abroad for 3 years so MIL, SIL who was a young teenager, aunt and cousin all came out 2 years running for a holiday with us in the south of France.
However that was much much cheaper than Dubai!!

@VerbeenaBeeks did you not read the rest of my post? This attitude you "don't like" means my teenager daughter didn't know a catcall until she got one in another country. It's meant as a young teen, she was treated as a CHILD and not as a sex object, it meant nobody has ever hassled her in any way whatsoever. Whatever she was wearing.

That doesn't mark her out as "special". It's actually what all children should have.

I’ve been to Dubai 3-4 times and only once been in a shopping mall. I hate shopping.

I have a grudge against Dubai despite having only experienced the airport, as I literally spent half an hour searching in vain for a toilet I could use. In the end I found one that was free after I had checked into the departure lounge. I felt sorry for the person who was waiting to use it after me, as I used the last of the toilet paper.

A place where it's difficult to take a shit is a dump.

A place where it's difficult to take a shit is a dump.

As someone who has lived in the UAE I find this really bizarre. The toilets here are almost always impeccable no matter where you go. I’d really recommend that you don’t judge an entire country based on one trip to the toilet. If we all did that then I’d be judging Spain pretty harshly.

So many people comment on human rights abuses in the UAE - would these people also avoid trips to China? Thailand? The US? etc.

I write this sitting in a beautiful hotel on top of a mountain in the desert. This country has a lot more to offer than shopping malls.

Not unreasonable not to go, but make her welcome when she makes visits back to the UK. I'd just say you have other holiday plans.

MN loves to hate Dubai. All the people irl have liked it though, myself included. I’ve travelled extensively, us as a family like bit of culture and we all enjoyed Dubai and I personally think it’s a fascinating place. I like shopping too but not in Dubai as I find it bit too expensive.

We’ve been twice and wouldn’t mind going again some time in the future. I’ve always felt safe there and agree it’s not as conservative as it’s made out to be here.

I personally hate holiday snobbery, holiday is what you make of it. It says a lot about the PP’s who just write it off being about shopping and beaches and being all bloody superior about it.

Also, I have a gay friend, very much proud and out and he often travels to Dubai for work. And abdolutely loves it.

Helipad your gay friend can make his own decisions and draw his own moral lines. My attitude to the UAE is not as hardline as my views on Saudi but I will not visit - for a holiday - a country where being gay is illegal.

You, obviously, can draw your own lines but that is not an aspect of a 'culture' I wish to support with my holiday money.

Awful human rights and boring as fuck. Exh insisted we go but then again he was also boring as fuck

I’d really recommend that you don’t judge an entire country based on one trip to the toilet. If we all did that then I’d be judging Spain pretty harshly.

This made me
Yeah, I never want to go as can't be doing with how they treat women, but I'm with you there - it is utterly random to hate on a country just because you didn't have a nice trip to the toilet one time!

A place where it's difficult to take a shit is
a dump.

You wouldn’t like Hong Kong then.

In a lot of public toilets, paper isn’t supplied. You’re expected to carry your own.

UAE is bloody awful generally. I’d avoid, avoid, avoid. And I’ve been there a fair bit/

A place where it's difficult to take a shit is a dump

I think you need your eyes tested.

So many people comment on human rights abuses in the UAE - would these people also avoid trips to China? Thailand? The US? etc

Personally, I think they should visit southern India and Bangladesh and see the villages these guys come from and the poverty they have. See them carry salt baskets for a dollar a day, or break up ships in Chittagong, see their children not able to go to school.

Then go to the village up the road that a Dubai company has put bathrooms and clean water into, and the children are in school because a labourer in Dubai is able to pay the fees.

Then judge what's a human rights abuse.

But it's easier to make it a Dubai problem rather than admit it's a world economic problem.

I live in a North African country where many of its population go to Dubai to seek work. Some of the stories I've been told by actual workers are appalling. Literally, the whole of Dubai has been built on slave labour and yes I would question going to China and have never been to Thailand. I also have an Arab sounding name so don't fancy the US and getting an interrogation on arrival. For me, the main reason that I would feel sickened in Dubai is that it is so inexhaustibly wealthy, there is the most awful ostentatious wealth against a backdrop of slave labour. I don't feel impressed by the wealth, I just find it horrible.

All the whataboutery!

Yes other places are worse but the conversation is not about the other places it's about Dubai.

Don't look at it sideways and adjust your conscience because " other places are worse".

Dubai has a poor human rights record as described by internationally recognised organisations like Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, being gay is illegal.

That information is enough for me to not want to go shopping or sit round a pool. If you can ignore that for a nice handbag or a quick swim that's between you and your conscience (if you can find it) but don't point the finger at other people who draw their moral lines in a different place.

My personal opinion is that if a family member makes the choice to move far away then they should make the majority of the effort to come back and visit family. They shouldn't expect anyone to sacrifice their money just because they decided to move away, and they certainly can't get angry over it.

I would be honest and just explain that it is very expensive and that you've looked and there's not much for kids to do ?

With Skype these days, you can keep in contact as much as you like so I don't see the need to have to visit on this occasion.

All this talk about the same points!
People have been mentioning other places here because this thread is about holidays. To quote the OP, 'I'd scrimp and go to Australia/Thailand/America as I know we'd have a great time'.

All that some of us here are trying to point out is that the reasons given against Dubai are not accurate, and the instances of human rights issues and all that (which are NOT the norm in the UAE, and are individual instances) are pretty well applicable to several other countries including the ones mentioned by the OP.
I understand that views and opinions are pretty subjective, and no one is insisting on forcing people into a holiday that don't want to go on! All some of us are trying to do here is to point out the discrepancies and flawed opinions here - most of which have been ignored, with posters coming back to state the same stuff about shopping/lying in the sun/quick swim...when it's been pointed out that there's a lot more to do here. And ignoring the fact that the migrant workers (over whom several conscientious people here seem to be very concerned indeed) often benefit from working in the UAE, since these labourers are actually incrementing wealth lost due to colonialism (that brought on this crippling poverty in a none-too-distant past, and was one of the worst human rights issues ever).

Inaccurate according to who? I will take the word of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty over someone who lives in a country.

I live in the U.K. and I work with people from an inner city area, I deal day to day with some complex issues,but, I am aware that in reality I am very sheltered.

Just because you live somewhere or visit it does not mean you fully understand the underbelly of that country - very few people do.

The thread is specifically about Dubai (see the title) not other places.

The view that migrant worker do well compared to their home country is the same argument employed by mill owners in the 19 century to justify employing children to work 10 hour days. The money would benefit their families and they were so poor it was actually helping them to give them a job.

If we listened to arguments like that society would never improve.

People going to places and commenting on their experiences there, good or bad, cultured or not is interesting. Anyone comme ting on places they've never been to really get on my nerves. They base their opinion on hearse a or much worse, the media having no appreciation that the media makes money out of sensationalism and therefore most reports will be biased.

I visited a country with a reputation of being dangerous for foreigners and many people said I was mad to go there. Its made me quite cautious and wary when I got there. Thankfully I observed and put my prejudices behind and discovered an amazing country and ft completely safe as a woman who wasn't acting respectfully to local customs.

I'm about to fly to Dubai and have no idea what to expect. I won't be walking around in skimpy outfits and won't be drinking in public. I won't do any shopping either as I hate but gathered there is so much more to do culturally. If I absolutely hate it which I doubt I'll still get 5 days of perfect sunshine and heat. Yippee!

@Moussemouse, you are aware that there is a good deal of criticism of HRW too? You are free to form your own views of course, but I'd just like to point out that I am not just someone who just 'lives in this country', but am from a country that's home to many of the workers you talk about. I most certainly am not an armchair warrior who forms strong opinions from info gleaned off websites.
And I am from a society that has very much improved from the wealth sent back by its migrant workers. These are not 'cotton mill employees of the 19th century' that were victimized by their own country - these are people that were victimized by a foreign power, and are now taking up jobs, out of their own choice, to spend a few years abroad so they can raise their standard of living. There's plenty of evidence that their societies are very much improving.

@swingofthings, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful holiday - if you happen to be in Dubai next week, do try to look into the Diwali festivities that's happening around town (pretty much well advertised and thus hard to miss!) There are enough South Asians here that celebrate the festival unabashedly :)

Thanks for the tip, exactly what we would want to experience.

Ahhhh the 'arm chair warrior' insult.

My points are that many agencies are very critical of many aspects of life and politics in Dubai.

It is indisputably true that being gay is illegal - I am deeply uncomfortable about supporting such a regime.

Political opposition is dangerous and political prisoners are held without trial.

These are facts you might be fine with them, I'm not.

It is true that Dubai is not as bad as other regimes but it has some red lines I won't cross - being gay being illegal is one.

My point about living in a country is that I live in the U.K.. I work with people from a deprived area but I am conscious I don't know the whole story about life in the poorest parts of the U.K.. When someone who is comfortable and middle class starts telling me the 'know what it's like to be poor' it rings alarm bells. Because who really knows unless you go in and investigate properly?

The arguments used for exploiting poor people are the same the world over and throughout history. Yes life is difficult but at least they have a job. If people in the gulf want the job done they should pay a decent local wage and not a wage based on the country workers come from.

You must know the migrant worker scheme is riddled with issues.

There are bigger issues and worse regimes but the question was would you go on holiday there and my answer is no for these reasons.

Where was the insult in the 'armchair warrior' comment? I merely said I was not one - it shouldn't seem an insult unless you are one?
Asian workers here are typically guaranteed a basic salary by their own consulates. And this is higher than what they earn at home - why else would they want to travel for work at all? I am very well aware of the issues faced by the migrant workers from my own country, and am also aware as to how much they benefit.
The region is in the throes of huge political issues, and I'm not surprised that the government has strict views of dissent. Homosexuality is illegal according to their religion.
As I've said repeatedly, all of us are free to have our views and opinions. I'm not posting here to convince, but to show the opposite view so people that are deliberating on a holiday can make an informed choice!