Would you consider me transphobic?

[TheSkyisAlive]

First of all I believe that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should not be treated with hormones and surgery. Having said that, it's their body and their choice and if that's what a person wants, they shouldn't face abuse or live in fear.

But just because you identify as a female does not mean you are one. Even after surgery.

You do not understand what it is like to be a female and the problems we face. You do not get to speak on behalf of women. You should not compete in female only sports.

Does that make me transphobic or simply someone who does not want the females to be second class citizens?

Debatable whether men should bow out of gynaecology altogether 🤔
However, a man, also including men who believe they are women, should never appear when a woman has requested another woman. Because another person putting something into your vagina without consent is obviously a sexual assault, isn’t it.

Because another person putting something into your vagina without consent is obviously a sexual assault, isn’t it.

Uh-huh. But if you don't consent, they don't put anything in your vagina

Debatable whether men should bow out of gynaecology altogether

Is it??!?

If I'm aware that my appointment is with a male then I can make the decision as to whether I want to see him or not. If I think I'm seeing a female and it's actually a man identifying as a woman then it's a whole different issue and one I wouldn't be comfortable with. When I walk out and request to see a female I suppose I would be wrong in some peoples' minds.

Honestly, don't bother engaging with Rat. Rat is sure that transwomen ARE women (or so Rat says). There won't be any sensible debate with someone who thinks we should all pretend that any person born one of two varieties is actually the other because they really want to be.

Women, not cis women. I completely agree with your thoughts about wearing a pair of high heels and calling him Polly though!

I have no issue with men in gynaecology, but I do feel very strongly that if a woman suffering sexual trauma requests to be treated by a woman, then it should be a natal female.

Or is it just trans women who should stay away for the sake of rape victims?

This for me sums up entirely Rat why so much of what you say is unreasonable. I don't know what would actually make you post that sentence.

Verv not only victims of sexual trauma, ANY woman should be able to choose to see a female if that's what they are happier with.

Rat's comment about rape victims is extremely offensive and doesn't help the argument they are trying to make.

I don't know what would actually make you post that sentence.

Frustration. Men are not told they shouldn't be in a position to give smear tests because of rape victims. Trans women, it would seem, are.

Rat's comment about rape victims is extremely offensive and doesn't help the argument they are trying to make.

I'm not the one who used rape victims to tell trans women what careers they should be "allowed" to go into.

Verv not only victims of sexual trauma, ANY woman should be able to choose to see a female if that's what they are happier with.

AND THANKFULLY THEY CAN

Some women don't care whether a man, woman, trans woman or orangutan does their smear, others do. Is that so hard to understand? If I ask to see a woman I expect to see a woman. It's really not difficult.

Ugh, this whole thing is just so tiresome. Misinformation used to beat a minority group.

There ARE sensible concerns in there; there ARE reasonable opinions; there are sometimes even things I don't disagree with; but to get to them you have to wade through a whole load of hyperbolic appeals to emotion and misrepresentation, along with a heft dose of "I care more about women than you" and shutting down of discussion.

Buuuut no transphobia. Because that word is meaningless now. Apparently. Except to trans people, I'm sure.

Pink you do know that those "others" who DO care are perfectly entitled to request a different HCP, don't you? It's just I keep pointing it out and you keep on saying things that indicate you don't realise this.

Accusations of transphobia have become so absurd that I no longer care if I'm told I'm transphobic.

Just saying that transwomen are male qualifies.

As for comparing it to homophobia, the equivalent would be being accused of homophobia for saying that gay men have sex with other men.

In both cases you're making a totally bleeding obvious statement.

I just have to ask, what's the actual difference between transphobia and literal violence

The trans debate is split into two groups; one who care about women’s safety and dignity and the other who care about men’s feelings.

AND THANKFULLY THEY CAN

But not if/when we all have to accept in law that a person with a penis is (not feels like or wants to be, is) a woman and has to be treated exactly like a natal female. Then we'll end up with some poor sod who just wanted her smear to be carried out by a biological woman
finding herself a witness in the inevitable discrimination lawsuit (or worse, the defendant in a hate crime case) brought by the sort of vocal TRA groups just itching for this to happen, for the 'crime' of saying "no, I asked for a woman".

Yes we can't allow it to get to that stage.

I've been very much more vocal on Facebook recently and had no disagreement at all. Lots of support actually.

I think people are sick of it TBH. It's nonsense.

And lots of people saw that Butterfly programme and raised concerns actually so I think that has helped. People didn't realise what was being done to children who don't conform to gender norms.

The trans debate is split into two groups; one who care about women’s safety and dignity and the other who care about men’s feelings.

I disagree. I see the first two paragraphs of the OP as transphobic but not the third.

Its possible to be respectful of transgender people and their experience, to not dismiss them as being mentally ill, to appreciate some people genuinely feel born in the wrong body and yet still point out it's unfair for a trans woman who hasn't transitioned to compete against women in sport.

If the OP had said the above then it wouldn't have been transphobic imo

Yes you aree transphobic.

And I don't get why some people on Mumsnet always seem to believe that woman to man trans don't exist and trans people are just man pretending to be women to come after our rights??????!

Rat you are missing the point re transwomen performing smear tests.
There is no problem if they acknowledge that they are biologically male and that the patient may refuse ahead of time on that basis. There us a problem if they expect the patient to perceive them as female. The patients needs (physical and psychological) always come first and anyone who doesn't accept that shouldn't be a HCP.

Rat isn't missing the point. Rat is a gaslighter par excellence. Just don't engage.