Would you consider me transphobic?

[TheSkyisAlive]

First of all I believe that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should not be treated with hormones and surgery. Having said that, it's their body and their choice and if that's what a person wants, they shouldn't face abuse or live in fear.

But just because you identify as a female does not mean you are one. Even after surgery.

You do not understand what it is like to be a female and the problems we face. You do not get to speak on behalf of women. You should not compete in female only sports.

Does that make me transphobic or simply someone who does not want the females to be second class citizens?

You can't compare transphobia and homophobia IMO. yes, you can. Look at these two statements:

“Homosexuality is a mental illness.”

“Gender disphoria is a mental illness.”

There are issues arising from the second statement around self ID and shared spaces etc, but those are separate to the actual statements around the feeling of being the wrong gender. And for what it’s worth, not all transsexuals agree with self ID and shared spaces etc.

@SummerGems.. Then why is it 'treated' by the NHS?

This sums up the idiocy of it all for me

Not sure why you’re posting in AIBU when you clearly have 0 doubt that you’re in any way unreasonable. Traffic? Goading?

And for those still confusing sex and gender

Considering the numbers of homosexual women who do not support the notion that trans women occupy the same female space as natal women, are they also being homophobic?

Yes, you are transphobic, but there is see plenty, much of it mentioned upthread, to be transphobic about.

If I’ve taken time off work to have a smear, then how easy will it be for me to take more time off? (maybe unpaid)

Oh how awful, that trans women are women means you might be mildly inconvenienced.

The only answer is to hugely inconvenience that trans woman. Ban her from the medical profession, maybe. At least for as long as she insists she is a woman. There is no way you should have to rebook a smear appointment to accommodate that sort of snowflakery!

If you are then I am too because I completely agree.

If someone had a multiple personally disorder, does that mean we should allow them to believe it is completely normal to live like that? No, doctors tell them it is a disorder and treatment should be given.

We shouldn't pander to mental health disorders, we should educate, diagnose and treat.

(I'm fully aware I may sound like an old grumpy cow but I'm technically a millennial who is sick of this transphobia shit)

Oh how awful, that trans women are women means you might be mildly inconvenienced.

If I expect to see a woman then it's not a 'mild inconvenience' to find a man identifying as a woman. A man's right to identify as a woman does not trump my right to see a female.

I believe gender dysphoria IS an illness in as much as it is a contradiction between someone’s mental and physical state. I believe it is real, and people who feel this way should be helped to find a way forward, whether that is through counselling or then onto hormones and surgery. I believe that they, like all human beings, should be treated with respect, dignity and compassion at all points.

I do not believe a person can change their sex, as this is more than just genitals, but transmitted at a genetic, cellular level throughout the body.

I am happy for those who complete the medical route to be given a gender reassignment certificate, just as they are now.

I do not believe in self ID. I believe a change as profound and life altering as this should be dealt with a medical and therapeutic diagnostic route, just as it is now.

I believe the current proposals harm women’s rights. I believe they undermine many trans people and I can see that they may raise new safeguarding issues. I believe these proposals create new problems but don’t solve old ones and that actually we should be looking to make our society more accepting of a wide range of identities, preferences and associations within the existing genders.

I agree with you.

I’m just going to agree 100% with spamfritters

Apparently this makes me transphobic.

Also the Earth is not flat and vaccines work. Jus’ saying.

Rat, you’re being sarcastic and unreasonable. Many women have been sexually assaulted or raped by men, and are perfectly entitled to insist that a woman performs their smear test, not a dysphoric man dressed as a woman. Just as they are entitled to ask to see a female GP to discuss gynae problems.
It is factually wrong to claim that a trans woman is a woman, just because he wishes that he was, or tries to present as one. For a traumatised rape victim it will be all too obvious that he’s a man, and horrific to even contemplate letting him do a smear test.

Lol, the tw wouldn’t need to be ‘banned from the medical profession’ there are people of both sexes who train as doctors and nurses, had you heard?!
Just probably not a brilliant idea for a tw to take a position that meant they were giving smear tests to women who might not want them to. Any decent person would be able to understand that 🤷‍♀️

A man's right to identify as a woman does not trump my right to see a female.

No, you're quite right, it doesn't trump you're right to refuse treatment from any HCP for any reason at all.

women... are perfectly entitled to insist that a woman performs their smear test

Women are perfectly entitled to insist that their smear be carried out by someone they find acceptable from the people available to do it.

Just probably not a brilliant idea for a tw to take a position that meant they were giving smear tests to women who might not want them to.

Oh, so they can't be nurses you mean?

*your!

I don't think you're transphobic and a lot of what you say I agree with

Not all nurses have to do smear tests as part of their job. You...do realise that, don’t you?

The only answer is to hugely inconvenience that trans woman. Ban her from the medical profession, maybe. At least for as long as she insists she is a woman

There's no need for the hyperbole. Just because one role of the (tens of?) thousands of jobs in healthcare in the world is not suitable for a person doesn't mean the sky has fallen in. I doubt they grew up thinking their entire all-consuming passion in life was gynaecological nursing and nothing else would ever do.

Secondly, why should one single person's feelings supercede the feeling of a much wider group? Especially given the dynamic here, where the HCP is very much the one with the "power" in that situation, for reasons already explained.

By definition that is 'transphobic' OP to many people, but it doesn't mean being 'transphobic' is wrong.

Thankfully the libfebs and hardcore TRAs are finally being challenged by the mainstream media and science is no longer being silenced. By them.

There is a massive difference between:

1. Needing to see a HCP practitioner and not minding/knowing in advance that person may be male.

1. Needing to see a HCP practitioner and specifically asking for a female for any reason and then being confronted with a male-born person.

Not all nurses have to do smear tests as part of their job.

And not all the ones who do smear tests are natal females. You do realise that, don't you? Or should men bow out of jobs where this might be required as well? Or out of gynaecology in general? Or is it just trans women who should stay away for the sake of rape victims?

*If someone had a multiple personally disorder, does that mean we should allow them to believe it is completely normal to live like that? No, doctors tell them it is a disorder and treatment should be given.

We shouldn't pander to mental health disorders, we should educate, diagnose and treat.*

As a total tangent, I can't help but notice how many armchair psychiatrists here apparently got their psychiatric training in the 1950s.

For what it's worth, the "pull yourself together, accept you're a freak and get out of society until you can pretend you're normal" approach to MH hasn't been used for fucking decades. In fact, when I was in hospital with actual psychotic delusions, my doctor told me I was perfectly normal, lots of people see and hear things that others don't and what matters is whether it is causing distress and we would work to find a way for me to live with it.

Hundreds of thousands of people live with voices or with OCD related obsessions and come up with managing strategies that are all about normalising and incorporating these thoughts and experiences into their life. Google "OCD hairdryer solution". We aren't being locked away or mediated into a coma, whatever you might prefer.

This isn't actually particularly trans centered but holy fuck please stop preaching this kind of toxic bullshit about mental illness and how it should be treated and maybe develop a bit of compassion there.