to think that your female reproductive organs actually matter?

[Pamspeople]

Just read this on a Labour Party Facebook page. Am gobsmacked - the very few issues that pertain to having a vagina womb and ovaries ??? -

No one is vilifying trans people, quit it with the hyperbole, go back and read the comment in the OP which was written by a representative of The Labour Party about 50% of the population.

I'm sick of people with an agenda minimizing the problems women face and getting nasty when we stand up for ourselves.

You aren't standing up for me - and I'm a woman. I'm ashamed of your views

Perviously cis women only spaces are going to be made available to anyone who identifies as a women. This choice was not made by cis women but the legislation seems to have come in under the radar.

By changing the meaning of woman and saying that sex is changeable we ultimately write women out of history. We become something like to a sub species, a second class citizen in our own gender and sex. We, as a society have failed to recognise that we are not fully interchangeable and that most of what being a women is is biology and the issues pertaining to that. So yes someone who is not a biological female may relate to sexual assult,threats, feeling less important in society etc but they can never understand how it feels to have female biology. End of.

So no, trans women cannot speak for me, they will never understand or relate to the medical issues i face, they will never know what going through puberty as a female is like or how we can insure that girls are supported. This is the same as i can never understand the situation for biological males.

All the political parties seen to have gone mad just now and are justifying handing away women's rights as fair and integrated. It certainly makes you question their logic and reasons.

I don't really care what people call themaelvea or how they dress as i want to judge the individual not the icing on the cake. But i don't like being told i am something else or that someone elae knows my experiences.

I cannot begin to imagine the life of a trans woman or man. The pain and confusion or happiness through discovery. I would never speak on their behalf because i am not trans. So why is it ok for anyone to speak on my behalf who has no experience of my issues?

You aren't standing up for me - and I'm a woman. I'm ashamed of your views

Erm. That's not really how it works.

Feminist tell me honestly here, would you be happy getting changed in a swimming pool with a male bodied person? Would you be happy for girls to be getting changed with a male bodied person? Would you be happy for a young girl to share a tent or dorm room with a male bodied person?

I would love for us to have a society where trans people can live how they want to live. For them to get on with their lives without the fear of violence or assault.
I also want women and girls to be safe. The two can be compatible. But not when male bodied people can access female safe spaces just on their say so.

I do not hate trans people.
I hate toxic masculinity and male violence.

I AM NOT A CIS WOMAN. Sorry for shouting, but I am a woman, no more no less, I am not fucking cis. Just fuck off with that shit.

Equally, my/your daughters, mothers, aunts, nieces etc are not ciswomen but WOMEN.

Of course I would be happy getting changed with a trans woman. No problem. I presume trans men aren't men either in your view. Just more manly women.

I wrote to my local Labour Party last week to tell them they have permanently lost my vote over this issue. It astonishes me. It's not that long ago that Gordon Brown totally fuck ed up his career for calling an opinionated (& racist) woman "bigoted" . And now they dismiss a huge number of their adult human female voters with genuine concerns about the safety & wellbeing of women & girls based on their biology as transphobic? And still arrogantly expect us to swallow it & vote for them?? Fuck. That. Nonsense.

The labour party don't want people with this kind of view in it. I perfectly understand and appreciate their point of view. That is why I would vote for them.

And you’d be happy for a young girl to be getting changed in a swimming pool with a completely unknown male bodied person?

That's why many of us won't vote Labour
I hope you enjoy being in Opposition - you could be there for a long time

I presume trans men aren't men either in your view. Just more manly women.

That’s right. Men are men and women are women. It’s very simple really.

Basic Biology

Transwomen are men, transgirls are boys
Transmen are women, transboys are girls

By definition, women & girls are homogametic, i.e. with two of the same kind of sex chromosomes, XX

whereas boys & men are heterogametic, i.e. with both X and Y chromosomes, typically XY but very occasionally XYY or XXY

Misogyny is so strong that even when men choose to become women they STILL mansplain (or is it transplain) what it is to be a woman.

My small, boring primary school arranged a training session on trans issues for staff and governers - I went along as chair of governors. Lots of delightful vignettes about this person's transition and lots of references to cis-women.

I asked them not to refer to me as cis-woman because I am a woman. The individual was clearly not happy and sought me out afterwards to "find out what my problem was". I walked away as I was so angry. But this is the reality, in nowhereville, UK, not just the big cities.

There's a lot of us out there Feminist4 . Women who voted Labour and won't any more. An awful lot of us being dismissed as not wanted because we're pointing out that we can't actually identify out of the way our lives are affected by our biology - ovaries, wombs, vaginas. Everything from health issues to employment to income affected by our biology. Dismissed. I won't forget and I won't be voting Labour again. My choice, my vote.

Queribus, and it is people like you that make trans children and their families lives he'll. Sausage on a fork, yes I would be very happy for a young girl to get changed with a trans girl - no problem. If labour stay in opposition so be it. I would never vote Tory.

Sausage on a fork, yes I would be very happy for a young girl to get changed with a trans girl

I’m not talking about a trans girl though. I’m talking about a transwoman. This one for example.
Now I know that the vast majority of transwoman are lovely, honest people who just want to get on with their lives. Just like most men are lovely honest people who wouldn’t dream of hurting a woman or girl. But most women wouldn’t want themselves or girls to be in vulnerable position with men they don’t know.

Just because you are fine with this don’t make that choice for all other women. What about women who have suffered abuse at the hands of men? They should have to get changed with male bodied people. Find male bodied people there when they finally make it to a refuge?

Feminist Are you happy for your daughters to change with a man who is not a woman, has no intention of becoming a woman, does not feel like a woman, got out of jail for rape a 14 year old girl yesterday but has spotted a loop hole and is happily hanging out in the local sport centre saying “Oh yes - I’m a woman.”

Because I am not happy for that to happen to my daughter.

The question is - under self ID how do we keep that man (and - when not trying to get into girls changing rooms - he is happy to be called a man so I am not “mis-gendering him) out of the girls changing rooms?

That is women’s objections. We don’t want to make life harder for people who suffer from gender dysmorphia. We want to keep our daughters safe from male predators who have found a loop hole.

Of course I would be happy getting changed with a trans woman
@feminist4 you deliberately did not answer the question

Would you be happy for a man with a penis sharing a changing room with 6 year old girls???!!

Yes I would be very happy for a young girl to get changed with a trans girl - no problem.

Well that's nice for you, but what if the young girl wasn't happy to do that though?

the anti-trans hatred on MN is truly disgusting.

I'm with you Feminist.

Go and ask for a third unisex space, or make the mens unisex, and stop harassing women. Women's rights to privacy and safety are not up for grabs.

I think the way you have worded your thread title is wry insensitive towards infertile woman. HTH.