Is EBF always worth it?

[Storm4star]

Not a TAAT, but I have just read yet another thread from a woman at her wits end of tiredness due to EBF. I have been here a few months now and it seems to be a common theme. I am honestly not trying to be goady or controversial. I know breast is best for baby but at the expense of everything else?? It’s great that more women are encouraged to breastfeed but have we gone too far the other way? Is it really worth sacrificing mums mental and physical health, her relationship, the amount of time she can spend with her other DCs just to breastfeed? AIBU to think fine yes let’s encourage breast feeding but to also encourage mums to do what’s best for the whole family, and to not feel a failure if they decide to switch to formula?

@speakout

Id like you to be very specific.

So many factors at play in how a woman gets on with breastfeeding and how long she continues. It’s not always about societal factors or your support network , either, although these are important.

I hated breastfeeding. With DC1 I had an emergency c-section and was quite poorly afterwards. Repeated mastitis and rounds of antibiotics for the first few months, hospitalisation for a breast abscess....it was grim and I pretty much felt like I had the worst flu for the first months of my DS’s life, coupled with recovering from surgery, sleep deprivation and getting used to being a mum.

Stopping was hard because of the guilt, but it was absolutely the right thing to do. I was able to physically heal, could share feeds so got much more sleep and I was able to bond much better with my baby because I wasn’t constantly on edge dreading the next feed.

So no, ebf isn’t always worth it.

With DC1 I had an emergency c-section and was quite poorly afterwards. Repeated mastitis and rounds of antibiotics for the first few months, hospitalisation for a breast abscess....it was grim and I pretty much felt like I had the worst flu for the first months of my DS’s life, coupled with recovering from surgery, sleep deprivation and getting used to being a mum.

@speakout - the formula companies made all that happen didn’t they ?!

As someone who switched to FF at 6 weeks because it was that or kill myself (seriously and genuinely), I totally agree that we need more practical support for breastfeeding - not a series of well-meaning midwives who give different advice every time and end up just shoving your boob in the baby's mouth (and I say this as someone who loves midwives, it's just not what they're trained to do). In an ideal world every woman would be assigned a lactation consultant who stays with them until breastfeeding is established, doing home visits and overnights if necessary. But unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

I don't agree that formula companies create a problem though. They need to exist - babies WILL die without formula because breastfeeding genuinely isn't possible for some (my daughter ended up in A&E with dehydration and although I believe I could have mix-fed, she definitely needed some formula in those early weeks and I think if I'd felt comfortable offering it earlier on I would have kept breastfeeding for longer. But other than existing, I don't see that they tempt anyone away from breastfeeding. There's no advertising for early formula feeding and even when I had made the decision I found it really hard to find information about bottle feeding and whenever I did I always had to click past some kind of disclaimer reminding me that breast is best etc and making me feel even more guilty for the harm I was doing my daughter. Which of course just exacerbated the situation.

Every woman is different of course and I understand why some people would prefer ff to not even be offered as an option, because for some women that would be helpful. For me, if I had been made to feel less guilty and ashamed, I think I would have been able to mix feed and potentially even go back to ebf. And despite the fact that my daughter is healthy, happy and fully bonded to me, I DO wish I could have kept going for longer.

My son had some formula from the start because he was prem and there is no donated milk in my area. He never managed to latch despite trying for 2 months as well as being fed expressed milk and formula top ups.
I wish I had had expert advice on feeding expressed milk and not bothered continuing to try to breast feed as I think the expressing could have worked. In the end I couldn't cope with any of the bf related stuff as it was making me permanently upset and switched to ff completely.

The rise of formula use in the 1950s and 60s meant that breastfeeding rates plummeted.

Most babies were formula fed from birth.

Before that time breastfeeding skills were passed on from mother to daughter, sister to cousin, neighbour to friend.

I have worked as a breastfeeding counsellor for 18 years. Many of the women I have worked with have never seen anyone breastfeed.
When I breastfed my own children I had never seen anyone breastfeed.
All my family used formula.

Breastfeeding support at its best is subtle, timely and small.
Women seeking help and support tend to come when things have escalated into thrush, bleeding nipples, mastitis, poor weight gain etc.

With a small societal help many of these problems need not have happened.
Weeks before they could be solved by a nudge, a cushion, a footstool.

But women are left to flounder in many cases because those around them lack the knowledge to help.

Widespread formula use has led to an erosion of breastfeeding. skills within society
So breastfeeding mothers persevere, problems escalate, and weeks down the line end up in the lap of the NHS because they turn into real medical issues.

In a society where breastfeeding is the norm most women don't tend to suffer the difficulties we have in the UK.

In countries where breastfeeding rates are close to 100% breastfeeding problems are low.

As I say heavy formula use equates to more breastfeeding problems.

@peachgreen I totally agree.

I needed to be told it was ok to quit even though physically I found it very easy. I hated it. But felt I couldn't quit because I didn't find it physically a struggle.

And yes brook I may have a different experience this time, but I'm not prepared to risk it. I never got DS to take milk from anything but me and I found it hell. I had aversion, agitation and at times DMER. Just because bfing is physically easy doesn't mean I should do it. But I felt I couldn't quit, and DS clearly felt the same.

Some women love bfing, and that's great for them and all women who want to breastfeed should be supported to do so. I also think breastfeeding should be encouraged and the default, even though it clearly isn't in this country. However I do feel there should be options and women shouldn't be made to feel guilty (either directly or indirectly) for choosing other options. However I also think that women should be able to own the choice and recognise it as second best nutritionally (but not necessarily overall).

Shazafied - you're being seriously disingenuous.

The existence of formula - and the prevalence of a formula culture in the UK - means that, for some mysterious reason, British women are much more likely to fail at breastfeeding than women from other countries.

British women seem to have far more problems with, say, their babies' latch. With getting their heads around cluster feeding. With supply. With understanding that establishing breastfeeding can be hard, but established breastfeeding is a whole different ball game.

Do you think British women are wired differently from women in other countries?

Or do you think that perhaps something else is going on?

I never felt any pressure to bf. I just did it cos I wanted to and thought it was best for my kids. I gave up when I wanted. No pressure there either.

I am happy that we have formula.

It saves lives.

I'm not in the UK, by the way.

But I had both my DC there, and among my antenatal group of 8, only two of us breastfed.

I read threads like this, where women come on to say, 'I had to give up, or else I was going to have a mental breakdown' and feel really bad for those women. But also wonder why women from some cultures seem to struggle SO much more with it, to the extent they're suicidal.

Whereas women from other cultures just get on with it.

I mean, come on, there has to be something at play.

Before that time breastfeeding skills were passed on from mother to daughter, sister to cousin, neighbour to friend.

A lot of people don’t live anywhere near family these days a and have no support - not F company’s fault

I have worked as a breastfeeding counsellor for 18 years. Many of the women I have worked with have never seen anyone breastfeed.
When I breastfed my own children I had never seen anyone breastfeed.
All my family used formula.

all my family BF and so do all my friends, it didn’t help DD latch on at all. Not did the Bf counsellor , lactation consultants, midwifes, BF support groups or myriad of other professionals. Maternal exposure to BF doesn’t negate the real physical issues that some mothers and babies face that mean BF just will not work for them

Breastfeeding support at its best is subtle, timely and small.
Women seeking help and support tend to come when things have escalated into thrush, bleeding nipples, mastitis, poor weight gain etc.

not always. Some cry out for help in the early days and are given none, or it is unskilled and inadequate. Not the F companies fault

With a small societal help many of these problems need not have happened.
Weeks before they could be solved by a nudge, a cushion, a footstool.
maybe, but maybe not

But women are left to flounder in many cases because those around them lack the knowledge to help.

Widespread formula use has led to an erosion of breastfeeding. skills within society
So breastfeeding mothers persevere, problems escalate, and weeks down the line end up in the lap of the NHS because they turn into real medical issues.
thisnis also due to small nuclear families, capitalist society....nhs cuts, women being discharged before BF is established (in my case bagging to stay but told I had to leave and it would be fine) ..... many factors to blame other than simply “F companies producing formula”

In a society where breastfeeding is the norm most women don't tend to suffer the difficulties we have in the UK.
things are done very differently in many ways in other societies - larger families close together , much more help in hospital straight after birth eg Sweden. Formula does exist in these countries too you know. The existence of formula is not solely to blame. Your last post “formula companies make BF difficult was a HUGE oversimplification, and unfair to mothers who desperately wanted to avoid Ff but had no choice

In countries where breastfeeding rates are close to 100% breastfeeding problems are low.
obviously- complex reasons given above

As I say heavy formula use equates to more breastfeeding problems.
massive oversimplification and ignorance of wider societal issues that cause women who want to EBF to stop

@speakout I totally agree that women are less likely to receive bfing support from family but I don't think that's just due to formula. We move a lot more these days. We have babies later. We're not as close to our extended family. My mum bf both her babies but she wasn't around to help me because she lives hundreds of miles away. My MIL has passed away. I love my SIL but I don't feel comfortable asking her for that kind of intimate support. I think there's lots of other factors than just the existence of formula. But I take your point.

The rise of formula use also equates with more women in the workforce, and us being able to have more of a life outside the home. It helped in our fight for equality.

My mother was the breadwinner and had to return full time after 3 months. With 2 children already, I would have been unaffordable if my mum had to breastfeed. I likely wouldn't have been conceived, or if I was, I'd have doomed my family to huge financial problems. My parents would have even struggled to have my older siblings, because ebf + virtually no maternity leave (and no fancy pumps) = impossible if you're back working full time after a few weeks. And without mum back, how does the mortgage get paid?

Our parents and grandparents were liberated from the necessity of having a baby feed from them, in the same way that appliances changed our domestic life. For some, it meant they could afford children because they also needed to work, for others it became a choice rather than a necessity, and still today many of us choose the way that fits better with our lives, our need to work, how we want to parent. We should be glad that we have a choice now, and support women in both ways of feeding.

Countries with very high breastfeeding rates- Norway for instance - rates are around 99% - don't have many breastfeeding support groups.

They are not needed.

As a PP said- women are no different, it's the grass roots support they have which contributes to the ease of breastfeeding.

Formula use has robbed us of these skills in the UK.

@Or do you think that perhaps something else is going on?

Yup. Very complex societal issues involved. Not simply the existence of formula.

I think few of us get to spend much time around established breastfeeding mothers so we don't see as much of the positive side. I'm finding it much easier now but I didn't know I would if that makes sense.

Countries with very high breastfeeding rates- Norway for instance - rates are around 99% - don't have many breastfeeding support groups.

They are not needed.

they receive more adequate support in other ways eg straight after birth

As a PP said- women are no different, it's the grass roots support they have which contributes to the ease of breastfeeding.

Formula use has robbed us of these skills in the UK.
No. various factors contribute to reduced BF in the UK. It’s very complicated and suggesting otherwise is not productive

Sleeplikeasloth

A nice feminist slat, but demographic analysis does not support your argument.

Breastfeeding rates are actually higher amongst professional working women.

Groups with lowest breastfeeding rates are the low or no income women.

Women who live in familes where no one works have the lowest breastfeeding rates of all.

Shazafied

It's not as complicated as you suggest.

Widespread formula use has led to a depletion of breastfeeding skills.

@speakout

Of course we will have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your uncompromising stance. Pa repeating something doesn’t make it true

I mean, come on, there has to be something at play.

As to why British women struggle so much...

There are many women to whom bf is important and they try really hard to bf.

There are many other women that I know who either only tried bf to appease the midwives, so stopped as soon as they got home, intended only to bf initially or are pretty ambivalent really, so very happy to switch if they hit difficulties. There's no shortage of support where I live (groups every single day, 24 hour free advice), but if your heart isn't really in it, then (a) it won't make a difference (b) that's ok.

I think assuming that just because someone started bf, they want to continue, is very innacurate.

No. various factors contribute to reduced BF in the UK. It’s very complicated and suggesting otherwise is not productive

The only thing that can materially contribute to reduced breastfeeding, is the existence of an alternative substance to feed babies with.

I found BFing physically easy, though I will say I went through a period of finding it a bit of a mental struggle - it only actually lasted a week or two around 6-8 weeks, but it felt like a lifetime at the time! Just a few weeks on its so much easier and I'm very glad I'm doing it. However, as I say it was easy for me - I'd support any woman who said that she found breastfeeding too hard or just undesirable for her for any reason and think there should be no judgement at all around that.

That said, I do sometimes think these threads are in some sort of parallel universe where ff is unusual. It really, really isn't. The vast majority of UK babies get at least some formula by six weeks. People make it sound like formula feeders are this tiny beleaguered minority.