Trans and third space?

[Teachtolive]

This is by no means an anti trans thread. I am not anti trans. It could also be an extremely naive question so I apologise in advance if this is in any way offensive, it's not my intention. Would the use of third spaces not solve a lot of issues? So men's, women's and trans bathrooms, men's, women's and trans sporting events etc? Or if it wouldn't solve issues of safe spaces and biological advantages, why not?

How GRA reforms will render sex exemptions unworkable

Here's a question for you all; if all women's and men's facilities were demonstrably safe against even the most determined predator, and demonstrably private that even the most vulnerable person need not worry, would it matter to anybody here if trans men and trans women used the facility of their choice?

Because that's got to a darn sight more achievable than third aspects, hasn't it? Let's all join forces and campaign for safe and private facilities shall we? I'm well up for that. And I think it's a battle that could actually be won.

The disadvantage is that men often "forget" to shut the door in unisex toilets.

Are you actually telling me that if you saw a woman you believed to be transgender in a toilet you would challenge her.

Fully dressed as a woman minding her own business.

You would challenge her?

Shame. On. You.

You do what you like Rat. I'll campaign for what I think is important.

Because that's got to be a darn sight more achievable than third spaces! Bloody typos.

Are you actually telling me that if you saw a woman you believed to be transgender in a toilet you would challenge her.

Such a telling question. No. Women aren't in the habit of challenging men when they're in a confined space.

You do what you like Rat. I'll campaign for what I think is important.

Just trying to work out why you think it's important Eresh, given that you'd be FAR more likely to achieve safety and privacy for women following MY suggestion than insisting on pursuing third spaces.

What could be more important than achieving safety and privacy for women in spaces where we might be vulnerable?

What could be more important than supporting the suggestion most likely to achieve that?

Because that's got to a darn sight more achievable than third aspects, hasn't it? Let's all join forces and campaign for safe and private facilities shall we? I'm well up for that. And I think it's a battle that could actually be won.

Excellent. I'll be behind that.
As long as, in the meantime, sex segregation was maintained.

Are you actually telling me that if you saw a woman you believed to be transgender in a toilet you would challenge her.

Not necessarily, because I might be scared of the repercussions. They're not "minding their own business" though. They are showing that they don't respect women's right to privacy and dignity and they only care about themselves.

Do you believe that life is as homogeneous as you imply and there isn't a vast array of hormonal and biological differences within the term man and woman?

OK so you say humans can’t change sex. That means that you realise that self ID=unisex spaces. Good.

So how can you say that is OK? Men in women’s spaces?

Explain to me what the ‘vast’ hormonal and biological differences are within the classes of Male and female. And why that means that unisex spaces are ok

What could be more important than achieving safety and privacy for women in spaces where we might be vulnerable?

Like say, I don’t know, miscarriage support groups?

Just trying to work out why you think it's important Eresh

No need to concern yourself with my feelings and opinions Rat. Ive told you why I think it's important for males to stay out of female spaces.

Speak for yourself. What a ridiculous statement 🤣

Just because you struggle ...doesnt mean everyone else does

And i agree with datun just because i have noticed that someone is a transwoman it doesnt mean ive said anything

Its called manners

Excellent. I'll be behind that.
As long as, in the meantime, sex segregation was maintained

Jesus christ Datun, I never thought I'd see the day!

I'm totally up for facilties being improved with more consideration for female needs, hell to the yes, that's the Feminism I've been campaigning for for donkey's years!

So what we need is to make a big push to get facilities to LISTEN before any changes to the law come in, right? And in the meantime things can just tick along as they are, no self-id just yet, and everything's as segregated by sex as its ever been (however much that actually is), right?

God, I feel like we're actually getting somewhere! Better toilet cubicles for all, no more poxy curtains in changing rooms!!!

This is why discussion needs to happen.

Csptain - the consultation on reform ends tomorrow so there may not be very much more discussing...

It ends Monday at noon.

Sorry - was thinking it was Sunday today!!

Yay!

Yay, both that the consultation doesn't end tomorrow and that it's not Sunday 😂

Indeed, Eresh!

Okay so we agree nobody is challenging anybody either through fear or manners ... so what are you actually arguing about in relation to toilets then? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Okay, so maybe it should work like this:

Facilities need to be more accommodating of our trans population. In order to achieve this they must either show that their facilities are both secure enough AND private enough to protect the dignity and safety of ALL users, OR they must provide a separate gender neutral facility in addition to their disabled facility, where anyone can access the privacy and safety of that separate space.

Plan??

Okay so we agree nobody is challenging anybody either through fear or manners ... so what are you actually arguing about in relation to toilets then

Where am I arguing anything in relation to toilets?

Or is it the royal you?

Mn isnt a hive mind you know

the consultation on reform ends tomorrow so there may not be very much more discussing...
The public consultation is just that, it will be a long time before laws a drawn up, in the mean time discussions need to happen.