To think if my husband’s so adamant he doesn’t want more children....

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’ve been with my husband for 8 years, married for 5 and we have two sons, a 4.5 year old and a 14 month old.

I would love to have another baby but my husband has said absolutely not, no way, and I have made my peace with that. He wasn’t too keen on a second baby to be honest but he did agree in the end so I accept that it’s my turn to take his wishes seriously now.

Anyway, due to a chronic health condition I have and medication I take I have never been able to have hormonal contraception (the pill, the implant etc) and so have had Mirena Coils since I first met my now husband.

I’ve had awful experiences with them, horrendous insertions and even more horrendous extractions and generally just having unpleasant side effects with would affect me each day.

I have asked my DH whether he would consider having a vasectomy so I don’t have to go through all of that again but he’s said no. I appreciate that it’s his choice to have surgery or not but I feel like after 8 years of contraception being my job and not enjoying the option I had but doing it anyway, I can’t help but think that if he’s the one who is so adamant that he doesn’t want more children then he should be the one to ensure it doesn’t happen?

He has said we can just use condoms and I agree but I asked what we would do if there was an accident with it and he said I would have to take the MAP. I asked what would happen if that didn’t work, or a pregnancy isn’t detected until later, would he just expect me to get a termination?

He went quiet then because what could he say to that?

His current reason for not looking in to having a vasectomy is because he thinks it will hurt

We are now at a standstill!

Any thoughts or advice?

We are going out with the children today but once they’re in bed tonight I will broach the subject again and use some of the really valid points on here.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.

You can't bully someone into having a vasectomy either.
What op and partner need to decide is what their choices are. It sounds like condoms with or without extra precautions or no piv. Partner needs to be in no doubt that op will not take map or have a termination if contraception fails and needs to make his choice on that basis.

It would be unreasonable to keep harassing partner about a vasectomy just as it is unreasonable of him to harass her about map or termination.

*At the end of the day though I want a sex life with my husband and if he isn’t willing to have a vasectomy then I’m just going to have to accept his decision and do what I can to not get pregnant, including looking into methods that have been suggested to me in the thread.

I know I’m asking a lot of him, and I know I probably sound childish but it just seems so unfair that the onus is all on me again.*

I take the point about his right to bodily autonomy but the above would pretty much kill the whole idea of enjoying sex for me. I just would lose respect and a certain amount of attraction to someone who could watch me go through the pregnancies, childbirths and uncomfortable side effects of contraception as the OP's husband has, but then not even bother to do a bit of research about the realities of a vasectomy, and who would just shut down the idea because he thinks it would hurt a bit . I would honestly start to question our whole relationship if he could be that selfish.

And as for the 'quite high' 10% risk of complications! 10% sounds fucking great to me compared to the risks involved in incompatibility with hormonal contraception, pregnancy, childbirth, abortion and having an unwanted baby! I'd quite happily take that 10%.

Whoops, bold fail there.

MAP is also only effective at certain points in the cycle. It can be basically useless.

@Kickassbitch - you should try living up to your username.

Any women that accepts a pathetic man-child who won't go for the snip, categorically is not a 'kick ass bitch'.

In any case, if you come on here telling women to 'cross their legs', you can expect to be roundly criticised.

Try having some standards, when it comes to men.

The reason it is considered objectively reasonable for women to be offered hormonal contraception with all the many side effects and medical risks, but not reasonable for men to be offered contraception which puts them at any medical risk, is sadly that pregnancy and childbirth remain higher risk than any form of contraception.

Which is shit.

The reasoning is that pregnancy and childbirth carry higher risk to the patient (the woman) than the contraceptive, then the risks of the contraceptive are acceptable.

Pregnancy and childbirth remain medically 100% risk free for a man, because he can't be pregnant or give birth. Therefore medically a contraceptive method putting him at even 1% of the risk women are expected to accept and be grateful for, is considered toi high risk for a man.

The couple are not considered jointly, but separately as two patients when contraceptive risk is considered.

Which is one of the many ways biology screws women, and men feel entitled to take no risks and expect their sexual partner to happily take on all the medical risks of their sex life.

Yes. And just so we're clear.

A women who says 'my body, my choice' is protecting herself.

A mealy-mouthed man who says it, in the context of refusing a vasectomy, is wimping out, big fat baby style.

Only scanned the first page as it’s pretty obvious what the responses will be. Your husband sounds like a dick. Time to steep up and take responsibility Sonny Jim

Buy a vibrator, and give him a wank-sock*.

*Before MN I didn't know that such a thing as a wank-sock existed 😅

Anybody who forces, coerces , name calls, and or belittles someone in to doing something that they don't want to have done to there body is abusive.

And any man who refuses to offer to have a vasectomy is pathetic.

No decent man waits to be asked.

*He said that he wouldn’t be happy if I got pregnant but it won’t happen anyway if I take extra precautions.

I think I will got to the Family Planning clinic next week and take it from there.*

Your response to that statement is this: 'There aren't any extra precautions I can take that work for me. I thought I made this clear. You are still placing the blame for any condom failure on me. That's wrong and unfair and I refuse to accept that. I'm telling you again: I'm happy using condom, but there will be NO MAP and no terminations.'

Don't waste your time going to the FPC because I can tell you right now, they will offer you the copper coil and that is it. They have a complete and utter bypass on any form of contraception other than LARC. They will hard sell you the copper coil, and the point is that you don't want it! You don't want any more coils!

But it's the only non-hormonal LARC there is so they will push it.

I'd look at charting but not even tell him you're doing it because he will blame you.

Personally, I'd rapidly start losing attraction to someone who saw me go through so much, including the Mirena (can you imagine their rooting around in a man's insides with no anaesthetic? Nope, wouldn't happen) and still telling you to take 'extra precautions' because he is done having children.

I’ve finally caved in and registered with Mumsnet so I can post on this thread.

OP I think I can help you.

I believe once you’ve looked the facts straight in the eye and accepted that you already have three children, the way ahead will become clearer.
Rather than looking to increase the number, you may want to think about shedding one of the three you’ve already got.

Hope that helps.

You are not being unreasonable.

@BoneyBackJefferson appears on these sorts of thread to demonstrate to all, exactly the sort of sub-standard man that won't go for the snip.

If you're persuaded by his words, I commiserate with you.

You're on Mumsnet, Boney. You might get a few sad handmaidens, shackled to vasectomy-dodgers, who agree with you. But that's it.

Apologies for the lack of participation for the next few hours, but I'm off to bed, and this thread looks like it's in relatively good hands.

Anyone who comes on to try to defend timid little vasectomy-dodgers can expect to be taken further to task when I wake up.

Toodle pip.

@Kickassbitch or keep her legs crossed? Is OP not entitled to a decent safe sex life? The responsibility is on her to keep her legs crossed? What era are you living in?

But you're not trying to take joint responsibility. You're saying "make yourself sterile, because I'm no longer going to have anything to do with contraception."

No, she's not trying to take joint responsibility, she's taken ALL of the responsibility so far. Why do people including women (I'm assuming it's mostly women on this thread but I could be wrong) freak out at the thought that a man could take some responsibility?

Your husband is a dick. I think it's very sad you're getting brow beaten into taking on the pain of getting the coil again so he doesn't have to worry about going through any pain.

Honestly, using condoms and maybe also avoiding having sex around ovulation is almost definitely going to mean no pregnancy, so let him buy the condoms. Just make sure he understands perfectly that you won't terminate a pregnancy if it happens, and them move on with your lives. (If hormonal contraception messes you up, could you even take the MAP?)

I'm sorry, but I just really struggle to have any sympathy with selfish men who are too 'scared' to get the snip because 'it might hurt'. Fucking LOLZ. And yes, it is selfish when you consider all the shite women have to go through with contraception, pregnancy and childbirth. We're told the risks, we weather the risks and we keep marching forwards regardless.

I've lost count of the amount of women I know whose bodies have been bloody MANGLED by childbirth. It's rarer to find out that my friends aren't suffering from PND these days - the initial catalyst often being traced back to something horrific happening to them during pregnancy and/or labour.

Among my friends and family, I know women who have had:

• Multiple miscarriages
• Ectopic pregnancies
• Fertility issues leading to invasive and upsetting fertility treatments
• SPD so severe it leads to crutches/wheelchairs
• Gestational Diabetes
• Hyperemesis Gravidarum resulting in extensive hospital stays
• Infected caesarean wounds
• Infected vaginal stiches
• Vaginal tears so severe their anus needed stitched back together too
• Multiple transfusions after serious blood loss
• Arrested during a caesarean section and had to be zapped back to life
• Highly distressing assisted deliveries
• Incontinence
• Mastitis due to breastfeeding problems
• Misery inducing PUPPP rashes in late pregnancy
• Preeclampsia

The list goes on and on AND ON.

But by all means, please keep telling us women why a teeny-tiny risk to men having a quick outpatient procedure is justification for them never taking any contraceptive responsibility, despite their poor partner having her stomach muscles pulled apart not once, but twice to deliver each of their children via caesarean section. I'm all fucking ears.

I don't think any person on this thread fails to recognise just how important bodily autonomy is. Which is why I would hope most people on this thread would suggest the OP, in the interests of protecting his and her autonomy, moves her husband and his oh-so precious cock into the spare room/onto the sofa for the foreseeable future. The DH, poor wee lamb that he is, won't have to suffer any potential low risk ouchies and the OP won't have the serious risks of another C-section due to unplanned pregnancy hanging over her head any time they have sex. Everyone's a winner!

This split me and my XH up. I still don't forgive him. Men can be shit on this issue.

@MaryDollNesbitt post of the day 💐

OP I've read as far as your update after talking to him last night and feeling angry on your behalf.

Condoms are fine because there won't be any accidents if you take extra precautions? Bullshit. He is still making this your responsibility.

He needs sitting down and educating about exactly who is responsible for HIS fertility. Clue: it's not you.

It's bloody obvious that you are not willing to have "live" ejaculate within the confines of your vagina. This is absolutely your right. Once he ejaculates inside you that's it - the results are your responsibility ultimately because the results occur within your body. And he's made it clear that once he's ejaculated he then expects to be able to control how you deal with the results. I'm not surprised you're struggling to have sex with him at the moment. He's being an entitled piece of shit.

Look. He's made it clear he expects to be able to ejaculate within your vaina, whether with or without a condom. He's made it clear that he will react negatively if this results in conception. he's made it clear that not only are the consequences your responsibility but also that you're obliged to deal with them to his satisfaction rather than your own. He's made it clear that his right to ejaculate in your body is more important than your right to bodily autonomy.

Does he have any idea what a horrendous arse he's being?

For comparison: I wanted another baby, XP didn't. I wasn't happy with hormonal contraception, I get thrush every time I so much as look at a condom, and I don't trust the coil since my niece was conceived with one in situ. And I don't see why I should spend decades fucking up my body with hormones to prevent something I want, just so some bloke can get his dick wet.

I explained to him that his fertility was his responsibility, and if he didn't want any more babies his options were getting the snip or refraining from ejaculating in any vaginas. I explained the menstrual cycle in depth to him, discussed when penetration is riskiest, and started recording my periods on the calendar. I told him I would consider his wishes in the event of conception but would likely be unable to abort. And I told him, with all this in mind, it was entirely up to him whether to proceed with PIV and risk the consequences.

For the next three years, he checked the calendar before every sexual encounter. And if it had been more than about thirty six hours since my period ended, we didn't have PIV.

I broke up with him for unrelated reasons. But if he'd viewed PIV as a right, or even just as a necessary part of sex, he'd have been out the door a lot sooner.

I posted early on, but have still been reading.

I think the thing that upsets me the most is that we're still having this same argument with men who don't want more (or any) children over two decades after I had my tubes tied. And it still comes down to an ' I won't, I won't either, so no sex' stalemate or the woman caving and taking final responsibility for not having another child, be it sorting contraception or terminating a pregnancy due to condom failure.

I don't know what the answer is. Well, yes I do, obvs it's a male pill. But that's a whole other issue!

I'm getting myself so wound up by this thread I might have to hide it.

OP I sorry to say your husband is a dick and I'm very angry for you. Seething, and I don't even know you.