To think if my husband’s so adamant he doesn’t want more children....

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’ve been with my husband for 8 years, married for 5 and we have two sons, a 4.5 year old and a 14 month old.

I would love to have another baby but my husband has said absolutely not, no way, and I have made my peace with that. He wasn’t too keen on a second baby to be honest but he did agree in the end so I accept that it’s my turn to take his wishes seriously now.

Anyway, due to a chronic health condition I have and medication I take I have never been able to have hormonal contraception (the pill, the implant etc) and so have had Mirena Coils since I first met my now husband.

I’ve had awful experiences with them, horrendous insertions and even more horrendous extractions and generally just having unpleasant side effects with would affect me each day.

I have asked my DH whether he would consider having a vasectomy so I don’t have to go through all of that again but he’s said no. I appreciate that it’s his choice to have surgery or not but I feel like after 8 years of contraception being my job and not enjoying the option I had but doing it anyway, I can’t help but think that if he’s the one who is so adamant that he doesn’t want more children then he should be the one to ensure it doesn’t happen?

He has said we can just use condoms and I agree but I asked what we would do if there was an accident with it and he said I would have to take the MAP. I asked what would happen if that didn’t work, or a pregnancy isn’t detected until later, would he just expect me to get a termination?

He went quiet then because what could he say to that?

His current reason for not looking in to having a vasectomy is because he thinks it will hurt

We are now at a standstill!

Any thoughts or advice?

@QueenofmyPrinces did he advise you to research your chosen contraception prior to using it? I bet not!

I got my tubes tied. I did it for me, as being pg made me so ill and was a complete nightmare I'd promised myself that I would never have to do it again. DH wanted 'lots' of children but was clearly stretched beyond his limits with just one. I was certainly not going to have another with him, even if I'd have been in a position to consider more for myself, which I wasn't. If dh wanted more he could go elsewhere, frankly.

My gp suggested that him having a vasectomy was a much easier option but he wasn't too keen and I had no need to press it.

Funnily enough, once I'd been done, he got himself done too!

@Fluffyghost can we have like for like? Like two NHS researches? Who the fuck are Harvard health online!!!

Not painfree but agony.

Those that have problems are generally those who haven't followed instructions, gone straight back to work etc.

It hurts a lot less than treading on a lego brick when walking across a dark child's bedroom.

But, of course, I would turn the whole contraception responsibility over to him with strong reminder of what will happen in the event of a failure, no MAP, no termination.

Both are conducted by Harvard, nhs have nearly reported the Harvard reasearch how about you have a look yourself.....

@Fluffyghost but I didn't quote bollocks statistics though!

I would turn the whole contraception responsibility over to him with strong reminder of what will happen in the event of a failure, no MAP, no termination

But realistically where does that leave me?

Pregnant and knowing my DH doesn’t want the child? I can’t imahine how much damage that would do a marriage

And if he did decide to leave before he the baby was born, or he left afterwards due to anger/resentment then I would be a single mom and responsible for the break up if our marriage and family unit.

And if we did break up what would be the repercussions in terms of parental relationships? Would he just want to see our two sons but have nothing to do with the third baby that he didn’t want?

It all just sounds horrible and I suppose I have to ask myself whether having a coil or a termination is the lesser evil.

"Get the snip or dont have sex. Your choice"

That would be my stance too!

"It might hurt a bit" clearly it won't cos clearly he's no fucking balls!!

My dad is a shit in many ways but after sis (no 3) was born my parents knew they didn't want any more she put them off the idea 😂😂

My dad had a vasectomy and when discussing he said that he considered that only fair after mum had gone through 3 pregnancies and births and even 1 lasted a damn site longer than any discomfort he had with the vasectomy!

Mum also couldn't take hormonal contraception as they gave her severe migraine inc vomiting.

Your dh is being a selfish arse and I'd be telling him so! Frankly I'd bump him onto the sofa till he came to his senses!

AlphaBravo - but he's the one saying he doesn't want more DC!

"Not saying his opinion is correct, but until they develop a non permanent contraceptive for men then how about condoms?"

"There should be much greater focus in the medical community on temporary male contraception" there IS

There is but they can't get it past trial phase cos the men testing refused to continue due to the side effects they were experiencing - which were the MILDER ones of those women have on hormonal contraception! Men are just selfish bastards on this --and many other- issue.

Soubriquet - it never even REACHED the market! I'll bet if men were PROPERLY expected to take responsibility for the children they half are responsible for creating, not even just financially they'd damn well take a pill with a few likely merely inconvenient side effects then!!

"I reckon they stopped the trial too soon." They'd no choice - the participants withdrew consent iirc

Jesus! And you had cs too?! That's MAJOR surgery whereas vasectomy is minor, likely to be home that day procedure! He's a dick!!

All those saying he has bodily autonomy on having the vasectomy or not - so does the op regarding having sex with a selfish bastard who if THEY conceived as a result would then expect her to take medication that is harmful to her or have an op herself! Works both ways!

PurpleandTurqoise - because he's NOT accepting the full responsibility for the use of condoms because he's said if they use condoms and there's an accident (because they have a higher failure rate than vasectomy) he expects HER to take on the responsibility by taking the map (which harms her) or his implicit expectation she has an abortion which she does not want to do.

"and he has no choice." But he DOES have a choice 2 in fact - abstinence or vasectomy are both choices.

"I don’t think he’s the innocent victim in any of those scenarios to be honest...." Damn right he isn't!

"It's not about the woman having more rights, the fact is it's the dh that doesn't want a baby, so he needs to take responsibility to ensure that a pregnancy doesn't happen." This! If he's the one adamant he wants no more DC at all HE needs to be the one to ensure that!!

"but she took that choice from him." No she didn't! He had a choice whatever pressure there might have been, he AS AN ADULT chose to have a vasectomy - and as always when it's wife 2 criticising wife 1 - you've only got his side of things.

"The fact is it is his body and it is ultimately up to him what happens to it." Just as it was for your dh.

Ditto totallyaddicted

Speakout - but those methods suited YOU. Op has been clear not only do those methods not suit her they actively harm her!

EvilSpiritGin - do you know that for a fact or is that what your partner/husband has told you?

"Imagine this was the other way round (man wanted kids, woman didn't) NO ONE would expect her to have surgery to sterelise herself, or NOT terminate if SHE wanted to." Bull! If a man posted their wife definitely didn't want DC absolutely I would say she should get sterilised - but actually that scenario is a nonsense anyway as that would never bloody happen!

MrsReacher - and significantly less effective than vasectomy.

"It really is all about what he wants isn't it." I wouldn't trust this guy to always use a condom either.

Busybarbara - WHY THE FUCK SHOULD SHE "AQUIESCE" and abort a child she DOES want?! That's a cruel and completely unnecessary option

"but your husband shouldn't have to stand by you when you willingly take a choice that goes against his." She's not raping him! HE is choosing DESPITE not wanting another child to NOT take full effective responsibility for NOT HAVING another child!

"I'm genuinely wondering if you have some kind of victim mentality that you think all women should share." I think it would be a mistake to assume this poster is a woman.

"For you, there is a safe, reliable method of ending the pregnancy if you wish to" op DOESN'T wish to but he has implied he would expect her to! - for his convenience!

TiredGirly - how the HELL is it op being selfish?!

HE is the one doesn't want another DC

HE is the one refusing to take appropriate action to almost fully prevent this.

He is NOT the one who'd be suffering side effects of Map

He is NOT the one who would have to go through the physical and emotional trauma of an UNWANTED abortion

If HE abandoned his family if dc3 turns up HE is NOT the one that would be raising that child - and the others!

"and more important the baby you create" also you seem to have missed sex ed! THEY would create a baby she can't do it alone!

Rebecca36 - vasectomy even with complications later in life is less problematic than female sterilisation. Particularly with the scandal that is essure sterilisation! Think you misunderstand what pragmatic means.

"and there are many women who share my view" and many who don't! And for whom it is medically ill advised due to severe side effects.

Abortion being "safe and reliable" doesn't mean there are never complications, nor that a woman should EVER have an abortion she DOESN'T WANT! And it would STILL involve more physical pain than a vasectomy! What op's dh is saying is actually it's acceptable for her to be in pain but not him!

"God this thread shows how ingrained it is for women to bend over backwards so the men can have an easy and comfortable life.

Mustn’t let the men suffer" fucking depressing isn't it!

Fluffyghost - those studies have largely been debunked in the last year-18 months. No proof that vasectomy = cancer. Hormonal contraceptives, essure (a method of female sterilisation) not yet confirmed but starting to look like increased risk of breast cancer (among MANY other issues!)

Even IF you accept the results of a SLIGHTLY increased risk of cancer, how does that risk compare to the risks associated with hormones, abortion, the MAJOR surgery that is a cs?

"Funnily enough, once I'd been done, he got himself done too!" Are you still married? If so why would he NEED to if you are?

Do you know who Harvard are?
A globally renouned medical school possibly one of best in medical research

*Sterilisation means you are in control! I feel sorry for anyone who had a post-sterilisation infection but, honestly, that is rare. Most people get over it quickly.

There is, of course, a diaphragm. You could try one. No form of contraception is 100% safe but if people really want to avoid conception, they usually do.*

You, again! Did you go back and read the OP? She doesn't want to get sterilised! On top of that, many NHS trusts will no longer pay for female sterilisation because it is WAY more expensive than vasectomy. And, oh, a quick Google will also show you just how common and often it is for women who've been sterilised to also experience some sometimes quite serious side effects 'later in life', too. Most also take far longer to get over it than men who have a vasectomy because it's a surgery that requires a GA! Hello? That carries far more risk of infection than vasectomy.

As for the diaphragm, best of luck getting those. You go to any FPC and they will tell you: pills, patches, rings, coils, implants and jabs and that's what's on the menu.

In this circustance id do natural family planning at the same time as using condoms.

I didnt need to though as i have a sexless marriage.

@sonandhelpneeded

Yes. As stated in my previous post, where i said it shouldn't be used as a daily form of contraception

This reminds me of this

Mormon Abortion tweet thread

It was written as a response to American views on abortion but encompasses the whole imbalance of responsibility between men and women....

One tiny snip is not that much to ask when you think of all the pain and heartache it could save.

@Fluffyghost no idea, not interested in them if I've not even heard of them!

We had a number of "scares" which prompted dp to get the snip.
He had the procedure on the Monday afternoon, took Tuesday off work and was back in on the Wednesday.

Both of his brothers have had them too and lots of his friends and colleagues.
After seeing me give birth he knew that a vasectomy was not comparable

@sar302 it daily form but maybe monthly or annually? I'm pro choice but that means including women like op that don't want to terminate!

He doesn’t want a vasectomy so if I want to make sure I don’t get pregnant so as to avoid a termination then it’s on me isn’t it.

Honestly, Queen, I wouldn't want to have sex with a person who expected that of me, knowing I didn't want to go through that. It would just kill my libido stone dead. And the only person who is 'breaking up a family' if a person doesn't have an abortion she doesn't want is the dickhead who put his own self ahead of everything else.

"Do you know who Harvard are?
A globally renouned medical school possibly one of best in medical research" doesn't mean they're always right. No researcher is.

There is no place for blind faith in medicine.

@sonandhelpneeded

I was using daily to mean "regularly", rather than literally daily - but you're correct, I could have been more accurate in my choice of language.

However, one of the main points of my post, was that OP could if she wanted to. I never said that she should. It is very different.

I do struggle with the fact that her husband should sterilise himself because OP won't use condoms, as much as I struggle with the fact that her husband would leave if she got pregnant (which would be just as much his responsibility as hers.)

There are issues on both sides here, and no winners if some sort of compromise can't be achieved.

I do struggle with the fact that her husband should sterilise himself because OP won't use condoms

I’ve said a few times that I have no problems using condoms, which I don’t, my issues is that I would struggle to relax during sex because I know accidents can and do occur with them. It’s all I can focus on during the foreplay so then I can’t bring myself to have PIV.

At the end of the day though I want a sex life with my husband and if he isn’t willing to have a vasectomy then I’m just going to have to accept his decision and do what I can to not get pregnant, including looking into methods that have been suggested to me in the thread.

I know I’m asking a lot of him, and I know I probably sound childish but it just seems so unfair that the onus is all on me again.

@QueenofmyPrinces

But you've been having sex for a number of years (depending on your age). Presumably before you were trying to procreate (although not necessarily, we obviously don't know this.) so you were happy and confidently having sex using contraception. Hormonal contraception is statistically only very, very slightly (1%?) safer than using condoms - when both are used correctly.

So statistically speaking, you are really no less safe using condoms than the pill. So what's changed I suppose I'm wondering? Because it's not an actual contraceptive safety issue.

@sar302 the difference is not in the method of contraception but in how adamant her husband is that he doesn't want another child. Even if the coil and condoms were exactly the same effectiveness, the situation was different when an accidental pregnancy want such a big deal.

What you really need is an acceptance from your husband that his unwillingness to have a vasectomy is matched by your unwillingness to take the map or have a termination. Neither trumps the other. You're both happy with condoms. Presumably you can use them effectively. He needs to understand that the risk is similar to the risk of any of the methods that are your responsibility.
And together you need to agree that neither of you has a right to dictate what each other do to their bodies.
So it's condoms and 1-2% risk of pregnancy - lower if you also monitor your cycle. Or no piv.

@ferrier vasectomy is w form of contraception the others are not! Totally different!