SIL expecting too much of me

[Snowymountainsalways]

I would appreciate any view you have on this situation.

When I married dh many years ago, his parents had fallen out with with dh's brother and family and no one spoke for the best part of ten years.

As a result I did not develop any kind of relationship with estranged BIL or family as we never saw them. Every family occasion BIL and family would choose not to come, as they could not bear to be in the same room as my PIL. It was difficult, weddings, christenings etc all very stressful because we would invite them and they would not come, or on the odd occasion they did come they would create such an awful atmosphere everyone was relieved to go home.

Estranged BIL and SIL have never even sent a christmas card to us much less presents for my children, despite me always sending presents for birthdays and christmases for all four of their children. It irritated me over the years that neither of them (or the children for that matter) even once say thank you, but it was my choice to do this as I felt it was right thing to do at the time. Dh has another brother and wife whom we are very close to, they too have struggled with all of this as well. PIL have since died.

Fast forward to a year and a half ago and estranged BIL died quite out of the blue in a serious car accident. We paid our respects and helped with funeral arrangements and my dh who is in the legal profession helped my SIL with all the legalities etc. All fine. We called and supported her as much as we could. We live a long way away.

However now my SIL is getting increasingly very angry with us because we are not meeting up with her and the children regularly (children are all adults 25+) she feels we need to be 'there' for her, to organise christmases, birthdays, easter and all other family occasions for them. I would like to support her, but because she is virtual stranger to me and lives 200 hundred miles away. I don't want to be railroaded into this all the time, I have a job, children and life of my own and can not drop everything to accommodate her demands. I don't actually even like her if I am honest.

I have spoken to my other BIL and SIL and they live much closer to her and are having same problem. My estranged SIL has become so demanding with both of us, she doesn't have many (any) friends and now her parents now have a holiday house overseas and are never around (they used to live over the road) so now it appears that many people around her have dried up.

I don't want a close relationship with her. I can't be the back stop for all of her pain and anger. She is furious her husband has died and she needs to sell her house. I have serious health problems (which she ignores) and all she does is talk about herself endlessly and it is so draining on every level. This is the same person that couldn't even bring herself to send me a christmas card for the past god knows how many years.

This christmas my BIL and SIL are coming to us over christmas (it is our turn), and I am under pressure to invite the estranged SIL and I really don't want to. I don't want to be unkind but the atmosphere is still so toxic between everyone, there is this weird tension still. No doubt she will be angry and she never holds back telling us all no one has done enough for her. I just can't face it. What would you do?

I'm astounded at this.

She sounds a nightmare and I think you should remind her of how they have ignored you all these years and tell her where to go. I can't believe she isn't embarrassed about her and BIL's previous behaviour.

beyondthesky She has more front than Blackpool so to speak, and is absolutely categorically not embarrassed but entitled to the hilt. She is incredibly demanding.

The worst thing she ever did actually was not aimed at me, but at her dd. For some reason they were both wearing the same colour and style of bikini on holiday and she asked me who I thought looked better????? I had not seen this woman for thirteen years or so and she came to the wedding having not seen any of the family for even longer. Bearing in mind she is 58 and her dd is 25. It was bloody mortifying for everyone but esp her dd, SIL then proceeded to ask every one at a wedding the same question whilst showing them the photo. NO ONE knew where to look. Esp the men.

This was during the time she was grieving for her husband apparently. Cocktail in hand on a white sandy beach posing for photos. I am so pissed off with myself for listening to this crap much less accommodating more demands from her (this time over xmas)

She sounds the epitome of an entitled, inadequate madam (and you're the polar opposite!) How can she have reached the age of nearly 60 and not developed any humanity? It sounds from your vivid and detailed description of her that she's coasted through life on the back of your brother-in-law's money with nary a thought for anyone other than herself. Is it possible that part of the bitterness is that looming milestone and the realisation she no longer has the cash to lob at her looks? How humiliating to have reached your late 50s and be as needy as a toddler..

Could you meet up for a meal somewhere half way around Christmas time then you only have to put up with her for a short time and maybe she will be better when she is in public. Doesn't solve the wider issue I know. I'd she is still like this in a while I think I'd just turn around and outright ask if family is so important why has she ignored you all these years, and you tried so long for a relationship with them and they rejected it and now you've come to accept it so it's difficult to put right this damage

Wow she sounds a nightmare! Very entitled, you have had some great advice on here OP and am glad you are going to let her know that enough is enough.
If she wants to have a relationship from now on then she can return the favours you've done over the years by beginning to buy YOUR dcs gifts. That would be a start!
It must have been tough for your PIL with no contact, how sad they died before settling the disagreements. Did you ever find out what the fall out was over being nosy

Nooo don’t meet, don’t pander! ‘You are my family, you should be doing everything’ only deserves a ‘are you sure you mean me? Because you’ve always been very clear we aren’t your family.’

Cut contact with her - she sounds like an entitled user

Op - I get that 'family' is important. BUT - all members of that family should be loving and warm to the others, (and actually like them!) otherwise it just doesnt work - then you will have a group of people who don't actually like each other and are tied by nothing more than blood, and/or tradition.

As I said, I am NC with Sister (going on 10 years) and father (over 30 years!) and I don't consider either of them to be worth the term 'family'. You SIL is NOT family. She was married to your husbands brother but has never been 'family', never considered herself to be part of your family and didn't want you to be part of hers.

You have your own family - and SIL is no more than a loose acquaintance.

Don't stand for being told what to do by some loose acquaintance.

She sounds like a classic narcissist OP - I have one in my own family. Everything is about them and everything that goes wrong is someone else's fault. She doesn't acknowledge your health problems, which you said were quite serious I think? That's because other people are not really real to her, she has no empathy. You said she has fallen out with all her adult DCs too? - That would support the theory.

They will very rarely change because they usually lack the self awareness to see that they are the problem.

You have gone above and beyond to help this woman and you don't owe her anything. Oh and for goodness sake stop with the present buying as she/they never reciprocate!

Yes the fallout was really simple but so sad, PIL were not wealthy enough and lived in a small apartment on the wrong side of town which was an embarrassment to BIL and SIL.

My MIL at the time was no wallflower and took great exception to not feeling as if she measured up and was very hurt and upset. Given how hard they both worked to provide BIL with as many opportunities as possible, and without them he would not have been the great success that he was. PIL lent him money to start own business etc etc. So you get the picture, BIL finally made it and dropped his parents like a stone because they were not the polished upper class parents they needed to be to 'fit in' with their new schools, life, status.

It was awful to see how much heartache it caused every mothers day, easter, birthday etc as they ignored their existence over and over again.

Whats the phrase that is often trotted out on mn? Something along the lines of dont swim oceans for people who wont jump over puddles for you.

Another mn phrase that is relevant here: not my circus, not my monkeys.

She sounds toxic..

She is definitely expecting to much and it is to little to late. Yanbu.

OMG it gets worse...

She is awful,, I'm so sorry

When she asks you to meet her or to do things for her, don't reply straightway, and when you do reply just say "sorry, I'm not free" or "sorry, that doesn't work for me" or "sorry, I'm quite busy at the moment."

If she directly asks to come at Christmas say " I'm keeping Christmas simple/intimate/relaxed this year as i have been unwell. I'm sure you will want to be with your children."

You can also say, " I find your expectations of dh and I to be unreasonable/unrealistic. We have already provided you with a lot of support given that the relationship between us has been very distant. If you need more support I think it would be more appropriate to lean on your friends or to seek professional support."

Definitely stop buying presents for adult children who don't even acknowledge your gifts.

PIL lent him money to start own business etc etc. So you get the picture, BIL finally made it and dropped his parents like a stone because they were not the polished upper class parents they needed to be to 'fit in' with their new schools, life, status.

Fuuuuck. They are (and were) really horrible shallow people.

She sounds awful. I'm afraid she's made her bed and I would not be making any efforts with her. Prioritise your immediate family. And I say that as someone who also lost someone very close in a car accident.

Seriously OP she is an atrocious cunt. Don't waste a second of your time on her.

BMW6 that made me laugh out loud over my muesli this morning! Seriously OP-loads of great advice on here, confirming what you already knew. Not worth another second of your time. No contact! Sorry if I have missed, but have you texted her yet?

Tell her you need her to change her tone, and that you are fed up feeling like an emotional punch bag for her.

When your SIL was giving you a bollocking for daring to say that you wanted to cease buying gifts for her adult children, what did she say when you pointed out that she has never bought so much as a card for yours never mind said thank you? I really want to know how she justified her position/defended that?

Lots of people here commenting that are hopefully not widows and haven't had to go through this pain. Well I'm a widow so here are my thoughts. Not its not her fault she's a widow, and I agree your not there to organise her life and she will need to get on with it. However, she needs some support by the sounds of it. She may feel that you are and your family are the last link to her husband. She may want to be around a "normal" family- when I say normal I mean that once a husband has died that remaining family is just not the same. Also, was it her that wanted to be estranged from
Your family? I know she didn't send presents etc but perhaps her husband wouldn't allow it. I think you need to set boundaries and be clear about what you can and can't do/ willing to do. Have you asked her if she needs some Berravement counselling . Are there any local support groups for her? Could you encourage your children to strike up contact with her children. You say her children are adults but they will still be grieving and as a mother she will be bearing their grief too. Perhaps but a date in the diary where you will all meet up- she may just need something to look forward too.

@bluewidow. I don’t think anyone ( including the op herself) doesn’t think the Sil is upset about her husband dying.

I think what the conversation is about is whether the op has to be the one to make sil feel better given all the nasty things she’s done... and her general toxicity. There is lots of pain and suffering in this world, you can’t help/be there for everybody.. so it’s right to focus on those you love/love you.

You have done enough for her already don't feel any guilt at setting some boundaries.
I think you did the right thing by being supportive after she lost your BiL and had it turned out that she was a nice person who mainly kept a distant relationship because that was what BiL wanted I'm sure you would have had time for her. But it seems she is not nice and an active participant in deciding on the NC with her PiL for selfish reasons which is a very unkind way to treat your parents.