SIL expecting too much of me

[Snowymountainsalways]

I would appreciate any view you have on this situation.

When I married dh many years ago, his parents had fallen out with with dh's brother and family and no one spoke for the best part of ten years.

As a result I did not develop any kind of relationship with estranged BIL or family as we never saw them. Every family occasion BIL and family would choose not to come, as they could not bear to be in the same room as my PIL. It was difficult, weddings, christenings etc all very stressful because we would invite them and they would not come, or on the odd occasion they did come they would create such an awful atmosphere everyone was relieved to go home.

Estranged BIL and SIL have never even sent a christmas card to us much less presents for my children, despite me always sending presents for birthdays and christmases for all four of their children. It irritated me over the years that neither of them (or the children for that matter) even once say thank you, but it was my choice to do this as I felt it was right thing to do at the time. Dh has another brother and wife whom we are very close to, they too have struggled with all of this as well. PIL have since died.

Fast forward to a year and a half ago and estranged BIL died quite out of the blue in a serious car accident. We paid our respects and helped with funeral arrangements and my dh who is in the legal profession helped my SIL with all the legalities etc. All fine. We called and supported her as much as we could. We live a long way away.

However now my SIL is getting increasingly very angry with us because we are not meeting up with her and the children regularly (children are all adults 25+) she feels we need to be 'there' for her, to organise christmases, birthdays, easter and all other family occasions for them. I would like to support her, but because she is virtual stranger to me and lives 200 hundred miles away. I don't want to be railroaded into this all the time, I have a job, children and life of my own and can not drop everything to accommodate her demands. I don't actually even like her if I am honest.

I have spoken to my other BIL and SIL and they live much closer to her and are having same problem. My estranged SIL has become so demanding with both of us, she doesn't have many (any) friends and now her parents now have a holiday house overseas and are never around (they used to live over the road) so now it appears that many people around her have dried up.

I don't want a close relationship with her. I can't be the back stop for all of her pain and anger. She is furious her husband has died and she needs to sell her house. I have serious health problems (which she ignores) and all she does is talk about herself endlessly and it is so draining on every level. This is the same person that couldn't even bring herself to send me a christmas card for the past god knows how many years.

This christmas my BIL and SIL are coming to us over christmas (it is our turn), and I am under pressure to invite the estranged SIL and I really don't want to. I don't want to be unkind but the atmosphere is still so toxic between everyone, there is this weird tension still. No doubt she will be angry and she never holds back telling us all no one has done enough for her. I just can't face it. What would you do?

Blimey - well done OP.
I'd just tell her that she never ever treated you, DH or your DC as family and it can just remain that way.
I really hope you get better soon.

Is this your DH’s sister? Or your DH’s brother’s wife? If the latter, I would have no guilt in ignoring her and not inviting her to places etc. If it’s his sister I would feel a little different.

agree she is reaping what she sowed.
Where’s her own family???

I’d tell her to fuck right off but that’s just me...

She says we are her family and should be doing everything for her

Just point out that she clearly hasn't thought that way for the last 25 years (or whatever it is), and clearly she didn't apply that in relation to her PILs, so so far as you are concerned she clearly doesn't view any of you as family.

Op

I have had a similar scenario but with my own brother, he has spent most of his adult life being nasty to me, the reasoning being the other way around to your SiL, in that he has never worked and has always been jealous that I have and my DH and I are comfortable financially. His wife does work but is from Asia and sends a lot of her money home, as is their culture.

I put up with him whilst mum was alive, despite some awful behaviour, including threatening me with police just before she died, as I bought Xmas presents to relatives from her and transferred money from her account to mine. Basically I got 'get the money back now else I will have police on your doorstep within the hour'. Then referring to it as a joke when mum died.

He also decided not to send my DC presents for many years, basically he threw his toys out of pram if we called out his behaviour at all. I continued sending to my niece (trying to keep the upper hand, like you) until I got an edict from him one year, at which point I decided to stop. She was also a young adult by then and never said thank you.

As you can imagine, contact since mum died and her estate closed has been minimal.

6 months ago my niece died suddenly. She was their only child. I was their only close relative in Uk so I did what I felt was right at the time and went to support them for a few days, and at the funeral. Relatives said I was amazing after how he had treated me, but I had to put my own feelings to one side and think of the loss of my DN, plus support my SIL who is lovely, and was in bits at the funeral, not surprisingly. Since then I have sent some texts to him and received ranting ones from him - fortunately not directed at me. It is obvious though that the loss of his only child has not improved him at all - not that I expected it to.

My young adult DC hate him for everything he has done, esp my DS. He didn't really want to attend the funeral but did, accepting that it wasn't about my DB but showing respect for his cousin.

DB has never been invited to us for xmas, even in years past when his wife and Dd went to SIL's country. I am not sure whether he would dare try to invite himself in future (I think SIL is planning to take DN ashes 'home' next year), but I would never have him here after how he has treated me. Despite his loss, that would be a step too far and as you say 'galling'. I also know my kids would totally refuse to be here with him.

Whilst I wouldn't wish what my DB, and your SIL, experienced in terms of sudden death, on anyone, it doesn't negate the treatment they have given out over the years. It also doesn't mean that we should now forget/forgive that treatment and host them in our lives.

Good on you for sending that text, and please - if you haven't already - stop sending presents. They are adults now, do they ever send you anything? I doubt it.

She sounds like a wagon and now that she is angry, she will just cause trouble if she comes at Christmas.

Your priority is your family who love you and are nice to you.

She doesn't even know you. And she didn't want to know you when times were good.

It's an awkward situation and I hope the decision gets taken out of your hands.

Good luck.

Dear NastySIL, we know that if your dh had not died you would have no time for us. I'm afraid that you reap what you sow, and you have sown only misery and heartbreak. Therefore, we are not keen to continue an association which lives only in your mind and only when you decide to activate it. We do have lives of our own and have managed very well throughout the years, albeit with the heartbreak that you deliberately caused for our lovely PILs. We have helped with practicalities following BIL's sudden death, and now that these have been dealt with, I'm afraid we feel there is no need for further contact. Yours"

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet

When I say everything, we were for a while doing absolutely everything from paying her bills to lending her money, organised all of her legal paperwork as nothing was in place.

In a situation like this it takes months and months just to get access to password bank accounts and he had his own company. It was a logistical nightmare. No one plans to die in a car crash, and so nothing was in place. It was a difficult time, and we were there throughout it all. I have no regrets helping her at. I would do the same again tomorrow.

What I don't want though is to have to pretend we are a close and loving family when nothing could be further from the truth.

"Dear NiceSIL, we have both been guilt-tripped by NastySIL for some time now, but I do not intend to allow that to go on any longer. I have sent her a very forthright text/email/whatever making it very clear that I want no more contact with or from her. I know it feels horrible and that charity begins at home, but that goes for her too and she has shown none towards us or poor PILs who died still hugely saddened by the loss of their son and his family. I will never forgive her for that and no longer feel that her widowhood stretches this far in to my life or that of my children. I will not be hosting her at Christmas, or ever again. If you want to do the same and need a bit of Durch Courage to do it, I'm happy to help!"

Sophiesdog11 I am so sorry to hear about your niece, how awful for all of you.

Your situation sounds so similar to mine. The horror of sudden death is
strong trigger to put all ill feeling to one side, so true, but once you have done the 'right' thing it is very hard to reverse back into your previous position isn't it.

At least your brother does not sound like he is pressing for any changes from you, in that sense you are lucky and I would enjoy the reprieve. His long suffering wife may up and leave for good, and then you might find yourself in our position. I hope not for your sake!

You are falling into the doormat trap of not being able to say a proper No and leave it there. You say no. Then you stop speaking or writing. It will probably feel rude and weird to you. It isn't. You are just used to ending on a Yes type answer. Tbh it sends mixed messages and helps no one

Absolutely. Agreed.

I am trying very hard not to hurt her despite everything, but maybe the mixed messages will be confusing her. I will bear that in mind. A much more straight forward message might be best next time (even if I am totally terrible at them) I guess I am worried about the fallout. She would go nuclear if I dared. Indeed I got the bollocking of my life for suggesting her now adult (25+) kids were too old for xmas and bday presents despite the fact she never sends them to my still young dc!

But so what if she tells you off? Just hang up or walk away. She's not your boss. Just cut her off.

Good grief OP having read all your posts I'd simply text her "Fuck off you awful, awful bitch"

Be brave!

She's not your family!
The adult D.C. are, but they don't want anything from you. Keep the door open for them but no more.
She's a nasty woman who cut herself out of the family. She's nothing to any of you. Stop feeling so guilty!

Oh goodness OP, she sounds truly dreadful!! I hope you manage to sort things xx

I used to think I didn't suffer from guilt!! Obviously I just didn't recognise it as guilt before
Usually I do my best in any given situation and that is enough for me, I am not prone to feeling bad most of the time but she seems to have managed to make me feel very very obligated.

I really love MN it seems to pierce through all the fog and mist and gets straight to the heart of the matter.
So helpful to have this pointed out when you are buried knee deep in demands from every quarter.

You are under no obligation to host someone who has treated you (and your PiL) so badly.

Send the text. I wouldn't specifically mention Xmas, but would address the entirety of the relationship. I'd say that you have all been satisfied with the (non)relationship as it has existed in the past and that whilst you were happy to help during the crisis you do not wish to change it, and that you wish her well going forward. Then block her if she starts in.

I think I'm understanding that Nice SiL feels she should be invited? I'd tell her that it's fine if the two of you (and DHs) have different relationships w/Nasty SiL. That each of you must do what you feel to be right and what's right for you is maintaining the status quo. And that she's perfectly free to invite Nasty SiL to her home but that you will not be doing so to yours. And that it needn't come between you as you value your relationship with her and BiL.

All that would remain to be decided by you is what you will do when/if there is an invitation to Nice SiL's where Nasty SiL will be there.

Agree with pp this woman is not family
You sound really nice op. And you and your dh have totally done the right thing with sorting all the legal stuff out
But you owe her nothing more
If you text her about Christmas she probably will kick off either to you or. Nice sil or both of you
If it were me I’d have a chat with nice sil ( and both husbands) so that you all are telling this woman the same thing.
No no way and never

Then block and move on.

This is her fault not yours

She'd go nuclear? So? It'd be a good time to go NC at that point, I'd say. What can she do? Or say? She lives 200 miles away - just stop answering the phone to her. SHe may well go whining to your wider family - all of whom know what she's like and are on the brink of going NC with her too! What on earth are you frightened of her for?

And stop buying presents for her, and her adult kids! Just STOP! Send cards if you have to, but no more money-shelling out.

I'm NC with my own toxic sister and father, and I know it's hard, but the worse they act, the easier it is! Name calling? Cold-shouldering? Bad-mouthing? Bitching about me? Each is another nail in the NC Coffin.

I got the bollocking of my life for suggesting her now adult (25+) kids were too old for xmas and bday presents despite the fact she never sends them to my still young dc!

Please don't tell me you still send presents to adults who have never said thank you.

Adding: I'd tell Nice SiL your decision before you text Nasty SiL. That way she's not blindsided by Nasty SiL.

He has a family of her own. Do not invite her. You need to concentrate on your own family and enjoy Christmas. You have been very kind and supportive over the years. You should not feel bad at all.

I like the term 'Another nail in the NC coffin'

It really won't be hard to go nc with her, because she decided to do that years ago before I even met dh with the family. It is hard if it is your own family though.

I expect her to go mad, and she will, and then I won't talk to her again. Perhaps I have been too nice for too long. I am not sending any presents this year no way.