SIL expecting too much of me

[Snowymountainsalways]

I would appreciate any view you have on this situation.

When I married dh many years ago, his parents had fallen out with with dh's brother and family and no one spoke for the best part of ten years.

As a result I did not develop any kind of relationship with estranged BIL or family as we never saw them. Every family occasion BIL and family would choose not to come, as they could not bear to be in the same room as my PIL. It was difficult, weddings, christenings etc all very stressful because we would invite them and they would not come, or on the odd occasion they did come they would create such an awful atmosphere everyone was relieved to go home.

Estranged BIL and SIL have never even sent a christmas card to us much less presents for my children, despite me always sending presents for birthdays and christmases for all four of their children. It irritated me over the years that neither of them (or the children for that matter) even once say thank you, but it was my choice to do this as I felt it was right thing to do at the time. Dh has another brother and wife whom we are very close to, they too have struggled with all of this as well. PIL have since died.

Fast forward to a year and a half ago and estranged BIL died quite out of the blue in a serious car accident. We paid our respects and helped with funeral arrangements and my dh who is in the legal profession helped my SIL with all the legalities etc. All fine. We called and supported her as much as we could. We live a long way away.

However now my SIL is getting increasingly very angry with us because we are not meeting up with her and the children regularly (children are all adults 25+) she feels we need to be 'there' for her, to organise christmases, birthdays, easter and all other family occasions for them. I would like to support her, but because she is virtual stranger to me and lives 200 hundred miles away. I don't want to be railroaded into this all the time, I have a job, children and life of my own and can not drop everything to accommodate her demands. I don't actually even like her if I am honest.

I have spoken to my other BIL and SIL and they live much closer to her and are having same problem. My estranged SIL has become so demanding with both of us, she doesn't have many (any) friends and now her parents now have a holiday house overseas and are never around (they used to live over the road) so now it appears that many people around her have dried up.

I don't want a close relationship with her. I can't be the back stop for all of her pain and anger. She is furious her husband has died and she needs to sell her house. I have serious health problems (which she ignores) and all she does is talk about herself endlessly and it is so draining on every level. This is the same person that couldn't even bring herself to send me a christmas card for the past god knows how many years.

This christmas my BIL and SIL are coming to us over christmas (it is our turn), and I am under pressure to invite the estranged SIL and I really don't want to. I don't want to be unkind but the atmosphere is still so toxic between everyone, there is this weird tension still. No doubt she will be angry and she never holds back telling us all no one has done enough for her. I just can't face it. What would you do?

She seems to be an awful person and you and your DH owe her nothing. She has not wanted to be in your lives before now, so why should you jump to her tune. You barely know the woman.

I would have little qualms in blocking her number tbh.

I thought I would be told I was being a heartless bitch and was mentally prepared to be told I would have to invite her whatever our feelings, so I am relieved and surprised that no one seems to think I have to do this.

There are some people who live their lives wanting to spread unhappiness and discord - it feeds something in them. Being cynical I would say that SIL realised that she was imposing the maximum misery on her in laws by being estranged from them so she did that. Now she realises that she would be imposing the maximum misery on you and other bil/sil by making you include her so she is doing that.

Just say no. As a pp said so well - if you have trouble with boundaries remember you are doing it for your children.

SassitudeandSparkle I am just constructing the text now while I am feeling brave...wish me luck! I might turn off my phone afterwards!

It's very sad that she's been widowed, but that doesn't mean she can batten upon her dead husband's family, the one that she and he have had nothing to do with for years, just because her own parents have moved away!

She has adult children, she can see them at Christmas. Or she can go and visit her own parents. She isn't even a blood relation to your family (not that that necessarily matters, where people are close and have a good relationship, but that's not the case here)

Just say no, politely. "Sorry, that doesn't work for us, I'm sure you have some friends or your own family that you could visit."

Thing is, if her DH was still alive, she STILL wouldn't bother with you, so she's definitely just using you because he's dead now.

If she was trying to build bridges, she wouldn't send spiteful texts nor be so demanding, so it's not that!

I hope you manage to find a good way to tell her No.

"SIL, we have made plans for Christmas which we can't change. I hope you have a lovely time over the festive season. Take care"

She sounds like she was a twat before her husband died. Her husband dying doesn't stop that. I can't be doing with the idea that because someone has suffered a loss, all past incidents are wiped clean and never existed.

Keep your own counsel, your DH should man up and explain the situation. Sounds like she is isolated but is of her own doing.

Go on, hit send! Even if she erupts, you'll feel better for dealing with it and you can all move forward.

It is totally bizarre that she expects people she has never spoken to before to run her life now. It's more to do with her sense of entitlement than anything else though. It's all about meeeeee. I doubt it will change so disengage and enjoy your Christmas!

Thanks for replying OP. What an unpleasant pair.

Has she actually said anything about Christmas? What happened last year?

Can you, your DH and other BIL/SIL just "grey rock" the subject and ignore any references? Or may this actually is a time for the MN favourite "I'm sorry that doesn't work for us... look forward to catching up in the New Year" or something.

It all sounds hideous and I feel very sorry for you all. Did I see that your DH had tried to address it with her at one point? A PP's comment about "you reap what you sow" keeps coming to mind. It sounds like she needs it spelling out in a very few words of one syllable.

I avoid confrontation like the plague but I did have to tackle a family member over an issue once and they backed down immediately. It didn't involve a row but they were very surprised when "the worm turned" and it was tremendously liberating for me.

pallisers You are so right, she has caused maximum pain for everyone around her and very very deliberately, and she did so for years and years and years. Almost every family occasion was totally blighted by it, everything became coloured and tainted. My other SIL knows this, and yet still tries to play happy families and ignore everything that has happened, and she expects me to do the same.

I however find it much harder to bury my head in the sand and put my fingers in my ears. I don't want to play the same happy family card, as I could not care less about a family I haven't seen in decades and I don't know them to care very much either way. So SIL can have a relationship with her if she wants, but I don't have to.

Just don't reply. It's as harsh and as fair as that. Support your husband in his communication with her, if needed. She is very rude and you have other priorities. She will likely always be upset, no matter what you do.

DontCallMeCharlotte Last year they jetted off to somewhere very hot where they could ignore christmas, so it wasn't an issue, this year they can't afford to although I am sure they would if they could.

And yes if BIL hadn't died we would have the same amount of contact as before, as in zero beyond me sending the usual parcels of presents. It makes me feel used to think that in all these years they didn't visit/call or contact us once.

Thank you, I am feel emboldened now to put my own family first. Not to be guilted anymore about this anymore, and I am sending the text saying we are having a very quiet christmas (I have a very good reason this year due to a health problem) and hope to see her in the new year at some point. That will be my last message to her for some time, and I will start to put some distance between us, so hopefully next year we won't have the same problem. If I was well enough I might well get on a plane myself!

Other pp was so right, we only have so much time and energy and can not waste it on people that care so little for us.

Well done OP!

And good luck with the health stuff

she is just using you! You and your DH stepped up when BIL died and helped her out. I would go NC . Life is too short to waste your time on poisonous people!

Have a lovely family Xmas with your nice BIL and SIL and relax

Well done op, can never understand people who allow their Christmas's to be trampled on!!

Thank you all for such good, honest wise advice. I am really feeling so much better and no more sleepless nights :)

I hope you all have a wonderful christmas too (am I allowed to say that in October!)

Well done OP! Maybe add on as well as having a small, quiet Christmas for your own family, that you do not want to intrude on her family Christmas traditions that she has over xx many years (of no contact from her) give her something to think about!

Best of luck with your health issues and have a lovely Christmas.

OK. I wonder if it's worth saying to other SIL outright that you don't want to invite tricky SIL under your roof after so many text "disagreements" etc and check if she is still OK to come to yours. See if she feels so strongly that she offers to host so that tricky SIL can attend.

You don't want to get into a situation where you tell tricky SIL she's not invited, and then fall out with other SIL who decides she ought not come to yours because she can't leave tricky SIL alone. Your "happy families" SIL may not get a vote in who you host for Christmas, but she has other options if she really feels tricky SIL needs to be included. If you're comfortable that's not a risk, fair enough.

Your other option is to compromise and invite tricky SIL for one night, not over Christmas day itself but on a less "charged" day around then.

sorry, crossposted, ignore me :)

I wouldn't go near her! Why on earth would you ask her for Christmas - you'd be asking her to ruin Christmas for you! She's never sent you a card, never mind a thank you for gifts you've given.

You would be a doormat to have anything to do with her now.

Kick that guilt to the side! It's clear to me that this is how she is - years of nc, years of non reciprocation, years of zero acknowledgement of your kind efforts towards her dc. Yup, you reap what you sow.

You've been supportive over her DH's death, you have been there for her. But you are not her minion, not there to do things for her (which she would clearly not reciprocate, given she doesn't give a shit about your health), not there to be her punching bag.

You can say no, we have plans for Christmas. You can even never speak to her again if you don't want to. Tell her you're too ill.

You do not owe this woman.

So there was no relationship there & even though she has lost her husband, she still doesn't want a relationship with you, just to use your husband!

She has family who could be there for her & doing stuff for her, so I don't think you need to feel bad about going back to how things were tbh.

Who was pressuring you to invite her for Christmas?

Could you explain a bit about the "everything" that she expects you to do for her? I'm a bit puzzled about what that could be- you say that your husband has already sorted out the legal stuff, so surely all she has to do is the normal, everyday stuff that everyone copes with?

It does sound like she has run out of slaves (parents suddenly have a pressing need to be abroad and don't invite her, children elsewhere, no friends to rely on) and I don't think I'd be rushing to apply for the vacant position of dogsbody.

If she's shown you some sort of warmth, or awareness of how she'd treated you, then I'd say you should include her. But I doubt she has a nice cosy family Christmas in mind, it's more likely to involve her attacking you about your alleged shortcomings and upsetting your children.

Thing is, OP, this woman is NOT your family. She just used to be married to your husband's brother. You do not have any obligation to her whatsoever.

In the message don't say you hope to see her in New Year. You don't hope that. You hope the opposite.

You are falling into the doormat trap of not being able to say a proper No and leave it there. You say no. Then you stop speaking or writing. It will probably feel rude and weird to you. It isn't. You are just used to ending on a Yes type answer. Tbh it sends mixed messages and helps no one.