AIBU To tell my 7yr DS it’s ok to defend himself?

[Harrassedhubby]

Situation: My 7yr old came home from school today in tears because he’d lost his ‘Good Stamp’ at school. I asked him why, he said another boy had hit him hard, in my boys words; ‘It was like when a pan is on the cooker, it got too hot and the lid blew off’ my son kicked the boy in the shin. AIBU to support my son and tell him that he has the right to physically defend himself against an older and much bigger bully? Or should I have disciplined him?

I don't think hitting back does always work though. Sometimes it makes matters worse. All these stories about how hitting a bully hard makes them stop, no it doesn't it just escalates and the bully ups there game!

Defending yourself means trying to stop something happening. Kicking back on purpose is retaliating.

All well and good, in a single isolated example. For example if I was on a bus and someone punched me once on the shoulder. My best bet would be to ignore it and place myself in a position they couldn't do it again, probably by informing the driver.

However, at school, you're forced to sit next to/be with the same people every day for years.

If the person doesn't like you, hits you, and gets no response, THEY WILL KEEP HITTING YOU.

In this case, a kick to the shin serves as a fair warning that if this person tries to punch your son again, he will get kicked again. THIS is self defence when you measure it over the DS's future school career. Not only that, but all the other boys and girls present in the room will have noted that DS is ready and willing to attack back when attacked. This means that everyone in that classroom is now less likely to punch DS.

I'd take that as a win. The teachers have to be seen to enforce the rules, but your DS was 100% morally in the right. He is now much safer for the next 8 years than he otherwise would have been. Just make sure that he understands the crystal clear difference between this and kicking someone for other reasons that aren't a direct response to violence aimed at himself.

No, it’s not nice or civilised to hit back when bullied. The flaw in the reasoning is that hitting back often stops the child being bullied again, and the aggressor/s move on to another, easier target. Which as adults looking at the big picture, might not have solved the problem, but to the child, it has.
Telling an adult is good, but only if effective action is taken by them. Otherwise, it’s ineffective waffle about kind hands and victim blaming.

I don’t see why anyone would care about being nice or civilised to a bully. The more people who bully bullies the better

don't agree with those who think it's ok to hit back - in my view, it's never right to do that.

But came on to say - fantastic analogy about the pan and the lid. Great emotional literacy! I'm really impressed with that one!

The problem with doing that is it escalated and someone can get really hurt and that may be your son. My first advice is always run away, tell, and only to retaliate if you genuinely can’t get away.

I think the fighting back to stop bullying thing only works when it actually is bullying ie something sustained and ongoing, not one squabble.

I get worried about people saying yeah kick back - it always stops a builly ..thats rubbish - doesnt stop if theres more than 1 bully, what if you kick/hit back and they can kick/hit back harder...
my ds gentle soul - if he'd tried to kick/hit back he would have probably missed and would def come off worse in any fight.....crap co-rdination so taking him to martial arts or anything like that was torture for him..

if your child only weapon is physical how will they cope with people bigger/faster/better trained than them.... some of this stuff may be easier to say in primary but fuck all use in secondary-

it is better to teach them to be not afraid to get help/be a grass /smart arse whatever non violent techniques work for them

unfortunately for him and others they have to rely on the school....and us not letting it go....and his school did step up (bit slowly at first) but I wouldnt let it go....we also did lots of self-confidence assertiveness work with him

What was he upset about?
Hitting back?
Losing his good mark?
Hurting the kid?
Losing control?
Your action should be to act on his response.
He has a lot more years left at school and is likely to come across this again. What sort of kid does he want to be?
Recognising his temper, is positive. What he does with that knowledge next is important.
It sounds like this one was witnessed as the school has taken action. But very minor action. It may not be the same next time.
In the same situation, I would not be mad at him. I would be pushing some of that awesome emotional maturity back at him and explaining choices. Hitting is not right but in real life at school, sometimes necessary to let the other kid know not to mess.
As to the theory of the shitbag moving to another victim, The school should keep a close eye on both kids to see where they go from here.
Sadly, kicking shins leaves bruises, so even if the kid started it, their parents will see their little Johnny is hurt whereas you lad probably has no signs of his punch. Brace yourself for a parental reaction but stay calm and firm.

I think your son was right to hit back. This is what I tell my ds. He is never ever to hit someone first or be mean to other children, that is bullying. However if someone hits him he can hit them back. Imo it's the only reasoning bullies understand. I don't know any bullies who stopped bullying because they were asked to stop. In fact I'd say in the cases I know of, outside (school) intervention actually made it worse. My son is asd and 70% of asd kids are bullied, its one of my main fears.

My son who has severe learning difficulties can lash out when distressed or anxious. At his first school other children would sometimes get caught up in this ( almost always because his ta wasn't where she was supposed to be). I could understand another child getting upset by this and lashing out in return but I don't think it is reasonable for an adult to tell their child to hit my son back to teach him a lesson. Even if someone said that they don't mean in cases like my son I'm not convinced that a 7 year old would be that discrimatory if they have been told it is ok to hit.

For those who are saying don't hit the bully back, it escalates things etc - rubbish. You obviously have never been a victim of bullying. As I said in my earlier post, I remember to this day how I felt when I was being bullied and it will stay with me all my life. Hitting back does work as bullies pick on someone who they see as a soft target and when a victim turns, they stop.
I was at school when I was being bullied and took extreme measures to stop it, so extreme in fact that if anyone reading this was there at the time would know who I am if I said what I did. I did not get punished by the school. In fact,when I bumped into one of my old teachers and was told that there were cheers in the staffroom when they learned of my actions because my bully was such a troublemaker (they had been expelled from their previous school)

Retaliation is self-defence, practically if not always legally. It can stop you being hit again either 3 seconds later or 3 days/weeks/months later. The law makes a distinction based on how immediate the effect is, but the law doesn't apply in the case of primary-aged children anyway.

Failure to retaliate can mark you out as weak, which attracts further violence.

Of course you teach them that, surely that goes without saying.

I would just say 'I don't blame you. Try and keep your cool and be aware that if you hit you will sometimes be in trouble. You are not in trouble with me on this occasion.' We need to teach grey areas - instinct and common sense sometimes trump 'the right thing'.

A young boy in my local area killed himself recently over bullies... tell your son to kick him in the head next time!

For those who are saying don't hit the bully back, it escalates things etc - rubbish

Sadly, it's not always rubbish. Especially if your child is not as strong or as coordinated as the bully. Hitting back (or trying to) just encourages the bully to hit harder for longer. Or the next time to get a couple of mates to pin his hands behind his back so he can't hit back.

Reasonable defence would be to push someone away who is trying to attack you, to withdraw from the situation, to grab the hand they went to hit you with and get them to release their fist or an object. Hitting is not reasonable self defence, it is retaliation. There is a difference. Eg. If someone went to punch an adult you should push them away physically, but firmly and not violently so that they do not make contact. Alternatively you would duck and run.

My grandson has been being bullied at school for over a year. The school have failed to stop the bullying despite my daughter having lots of meetings with them.He has never retaliated until this week when he pushed the other boy over.
The school punished both of them.
My daughter has now told her son it's ok to hit the other boy if he gets attacked again and she has told the school that she has told him this.
I don't blame her. Why should her son have to keep suffering and being the victim?

buy him an ice-cream and be proud.

For me, teaching to hit back or whatever is simultaneously that to survive they better be big enough and bad enough to be ready to hit and hurt people who are dangerous. What kind of lesson is that to child about your expectations of what your child should be? What kind of world are you telling them to live in? Who do they think they have to be to stay safe? I think the world would be much nicer if we taught our kids to cry if they were hurt, and seek the solace of others. I also think it would be great if we don't teach kids that a propensity to physical violence is what will keep them safe. How do we expect them to grow up if they are told that being toughest keeps them safe and your ability to be violent is what gets people respecting you?

Sadly, it's not always rubbish. Especially if your child is not as strong or as coordinated as the bully. Hitting back (or trying to) just encourages the bully to hit harder for longer

Bullies look for easy targets. If they know they may get hurt they usually move on to another victim.
Not all children will hit back even if they could but those that do usually get left alone.

Most young animals settle their pecking order or hierarchy by fighting. You see it in puppies, kittens, lion cubs, whatever.
Human children are much the same, especially boys.
Not defending yourself, and then running to the teacher, will get you labelled as a tell tale and treated with contempt by many young lads.
A swift kick to the shins conveys an instant message that you are not to be messed with and consider yourself at least equal with the bully in the class hierarchy.
I’d say to your son that although it’s never right to instigate violence, a commensurate response is fine. He has to accept that the school may not agree, but in the long term he has earned himself the respect of his peer group and will be unlikely to be targeted again.

Iv always told my children to stick up for their selves and it's OK with me if they retaliate.

They hate bullies and hate to see others picked on too.
It hasn't made them aggressive and they know right from wrong.

My son was bullied too when he was at primary school and he never told anyone until I noticed bruises at the back of his legs. Another boy kept kicking him from behind and then saying it was an accident. My ds ended up withdrawn and bed wetting through it.
I hated seeing this and never wanted them to be victims.

Sorry but I think it's good that your son faught back. It's just one of those things. If bullies think you are a pushover they will keep doing it. It's important for your son to stand his ground. The teachers may not always be around to stop children from hitting him.