To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

How are trans people being prevented from participating in the workplace? Competitive sport is kind of tough luck though- nobody has the human right to partake in sport when you have a clearly unfair physical advantage and may even pose a danger to other competitors.

Men in the loos or changing rooms would not bother me as long as everyone used cubicles- I do not want to see anyone;s genitalia, male or female.

What does bother me is that a man can claim to be a woman and get a place in a women's shelter. This could be highly triggering for someone who has been abused by a male. I also do not like the idea that a man could claim to be a woman and get a job on a Rape Crisis helpline. I just think that in those situations, a female survivor of abuse may feel more comfortable opening up to a woman.

This is not bigotry- it is about the rights of more vulnerable people.

Do you think Karen White is a woman OP? Ian Huntley?

If not, then you do not believe in the fundamental point of self ID being a good enough method of determining womanhood

It is not about toilets, although I would rather that women in clubs were still able to get away from men in the ladies, and id rather be able to send my 10 year old daughter to use the loo without their being full bollocked and penis wielding women in there

I took this from another thread. It's an interview in Denmark where self ID exists. Someone who self id's and wants to use female facilities.

I don't agree with self ID at all. It seems to be the most bizarre idea and open to anyone, male or female, who chooses to abuse it for whatever reason.

So where is your line for someone to be recognised as 'transgender' and therefore have the right to use facilities and services of the opposite sex? What are your criteria? Surgery? Hormones? Wearing the clothes stereotypically associated with the opposite sex? Is there a time scale?

Most people are just about OK with the current GRA, and someone with a genuine diagnosis of gender dysphoria using female facilities. However, we are talking about about 5000 people in the whole of the UK, which is such a small number it's almost moot.

So where is your line for someone to be recognised as 'transgender' and therefore have the right to use facilities and services of the opposite sex? What are your criteria?

The one we have now. GRC and the existing criteria to get one.

*What do you think it means when people say "trans women arent women" or that trans women have grown up as males, benefited from that socialisation and have male body types ie height, muscle and bone structure and that even having surgery won't change that?

What they are saying is that they will never accept a trans woman. Admittedly that isn't all posters but there are more than a few with that attitude*

It means they aren’t women, because they’re not. They’re trans women. Nothing wrong with being trans women, and they deserve to live free from abuse and with the same rights as everyone else. But pushing self identified trans women, who still present and function outwardly as men, into women’s spaces and onto women’s shortlists etc is not making sure they have the same rights as everyone else. It’s giving them far more rights than women, for whom those spaces exist for a bloody good reason.

I think the majority here advocate for a third space when it comes to bathrooms, changing spaces, showers, hostels etc for those who have transitioned and feel uncomfortable in a male space. Why would someone who self identifies as female but still presents as Male be uncomfortable in a men’s space?

Oh and why does their discomfort trump the discomfort of women, who are at risk of Male violence?

For examples, see the Hampstead ponds and Topshop debacles. Why should a shop assistant let a male into a women’s changing room full of teenage girls because they claim to be gender fluid? If it’s because it’s unsafe for feminine people to be in private with men, why would women be happy about a law change that invites men into female spaces? It’s illogical.

As is the argument that TWAW. I respect trans women, I understand how much many of them have suffered, I want them to live happy and free lives. But pretending there is no difference between trans women and women is frankly insane, and won’t lead to anything good. The few trans women I know have no such desire and would never insist that they are women.

they don't feel safe in the men's presumably This puzzles me. WHy would a transwoman not feel safe in the mens'???? They are still male bodied sophysically an equal match to any cis man who wanted to cause trouble.

Trans women already use female toilets in a low key harmless way but self ID will increase the numbers under the trans umbrella from 50,000 to 500,000 including which will bring a large new group of people into possible conflict with women over private spaces, political appointments, sporting achievements, female jobs etc and we can’t deny that women will have to give up some hard won power/position for them to achieve this.
If you look at the opposite side trans men joining the male population they don’t seem to get the political/media/sporting success in reverse.

“Why would someone who self identifies as female but still presents as Male be uncomfortable in a men’s space?“

Really that question should be asked of trans females as they are the only ones who could answer that one. But they obviously do have a reason.

What I struggle to understand is the ones that say "oh, today, I feel I identfy as a man, tommorow I might feel I identify more as a woman." How does that work? It does not seem like someone meeting the criteris for dysphoria, so how can it even be a thing?

It's not quite that though is it? It's people really really wanting the 'right' to enter womens spaces (where often this could be avoided by using unisex or no - sex specific spaces). Without caring if it makes women feel uneasy, uncomfortable or scared. To say that they are a woman - even if they are an intact man - and threaten anyone who challenges or disagrees (or even calls them 'mr').

What do parents with prams do - or mums with older boys/fads with older girls - or with disabled children do? They manage. They think ahead and plan. They improvise. They get in with it without losing their shit on a daily basis and threatening suicide.

@HIVpos But they are still male bodied until they transition, so how can they feel vulnerable around cis men in the same way cis women do? Us cis women have always known we are at greater risk of harm from cis males and sexual harassment is a frequent part ofour lives. We have lived experience of being in fear of being abused by men. Since we were little girls. So how can a transwoman feel the way we do when they have been brought up on male privelege?

Please don't use the 'c-word'. I'd rather be called a cunt.

Yes but HIV as a woman I feel uncomfortable in many situations - it doesn’t mean I require a change in the law to give people who feel as I do the right to impose on others in places where we shouldn’t be.

I am in several feminist groups where trans ideology is currently the most important agenda, over and above the rights of natal women and the issues facing them. I know for a fact that many of the members feel concerned about the extent of the proposed reforms but they literally cannot say so without abuse. They are afraid to express their opinions. This is very telling.

One member posted about the fact that the Wachowski Sisters are listed as the most successful female film directors of all time (by revenue), for films made when they presented as men, funded when they presented as men, produced and publicised when they presented as men. A few members, included myself, acknowledged that this was an issue before a few high profile members of the group turned up and shut that discussion right down. Accusations of transphobia. Accusations of transmisogyny. It’s absolurely ludicrous.

Almost all of the GC women I’ve spoken to have long been trans allies and still support the rights of legitimately transgender women. The problem is that, without the current GRC system, there is no safeguarding and no way of knowing who is legitimate and who isn’t. And once those floodgates have opened, they can’t be closed. At the very least, this warrants a fucking discussion, and it speaks volumes that many trans activists are very committed to ensuring that discussion doesn’t happen.

I think that the process to obtain GRC should continue as it does now.

As I understand it the person has to live for 2 years as a trans woman or man. That means changing their name, the way that they dress etc. How do you live as the opposite sex if you can't use a public toilet?

You can't expect someone to have to constantly explain themselves or announce their status at work?

Honestly, I don't know the answer. But I am honest enough to admit that trans gender people can't live their life with dignity if the rest of us insist that trans women have to use the men's toilet.

WHy would a transwoman not feel safe in the mens'????

I don't know if trans women feel unsafe in the men's. What I am saying is that it would not be usual for a female looking person to go into the men's toilet. So even if they were just politely told they were in the wrong toilet, rather than beaten up, it stops them from living their lives without constantly drawing attention to their personal life.

The law does need, in my opinion, to differentiate between people with genuine dysphoria and those dressing up to get a kick out of it.

I think when you get to the point that you're disagreeing with amnesty international, you need to ask yourself some questions....

No I don't think so. I used to be a member. They've gone full misogynist over the last few years supporting male rights movements, platforming male people who hate women. They literally give not one fuck about women.

The few trans women I know have no such desire and would never insist that they are women.

How do they live then? Do they use the men's toilets? Men's changing rooms at the gym or the shops?

OP is there a reason why people with a penis can't piss in peace in a space meant for people with a penis (Aka mens toilets) and people without a penis take a piss in peace in a space meant for people without a penis (Aka women's toilets)????

Sorry @Fekko

The reason we women struggle so much with violence from men is why I find it almost offensive when TRAs try to conflate their experience of someone getting their preferred pronoun wrong with being a victim of abuse or violence. It pees me off. Am sure being misgendered is irritating but to compare it to an expereince of violence???? yeah, like you get PTSD from being misgendered.

@WeetabixandShreddies The having to live as their preferred gender for 2 years or more would probably weed out those who crossdress as a fetish as opposed to the dysphoric, so not a bad thing IMO.

It should also be noted, for those saying that men would never go through so much hassle to get access to vulnerable people, that men can and do become doctors, social workers, priests, charity workers and patrons of children's institutions just so that they can do those very things. Of course not all male paediatricians, social workers, priests and philanthropists are sexual predators, but it is disingenuous to claim that this sort of behaviour does not happen, or pretend that roles in these professions are not sought out by paedophiles precisely because they give access to children.

NB I am not saying that trans people are paedophiles, I am merely addressing a PP statement along the lines that men woudn't bother training as doctors merely to perv on women.

I agree with @DeathGrip in that being uncomfortable doesn't mean one should get to impose their rights on others.Women know about really living in discomfort and rational fear in a way that most transwomen probably cannot imagine.

mozartvanbeethoven

I do agree. I just don't see how you can expect someone to live as their preferred gender whilst still using the facilities of their birth gender?

I don't know. I have no experience of this. All I know is how I would feel if my private medical information was shared with everyone that I worked with or if everytime I wanted to use a public toilet I had to announce my medical history.

Maybe I am just projecting my own fears and feelings and perhaps trans gender people are quite happy to share this information?