To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

The problem with seeing all misgendering as "hateful" is this: that in some circumstances, 'preferred gender' helps to obscure the fact that a behaviour follows male patterns of entitlement or violence or sexism.

We are currently seeing this in the press, with violent crimes performed by transwomen attributed to "women", to the extent that men pile on to the comments page to shriek: "look, women are violent too!"

There is also the situation in the courtroom. Maria MacLachlan, age 61, was told to refer to the young male-bodied transwoman who hit her using male strength and aggression as "she". Not only does this strike most fair-minded people as objectively wrong, it means that a victim giving evidence may be less able to tell their story because of constantly watching their words. And what happens in a rape case?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/radical-feminist-warned-refer-transgender-defendant-assault/

Personally, I am happy to refer to transwomen, in their presence, as she in normal circumstances. And I am happy to refer to people like Debbie Hayton as "she". But what about a transwoman who is happy to tell women to "suck their lady dick" online?

Yes I've used "they" before. MN is fine with that and also using the person's name as the pronoun.

There is also the situation in the courtroom. Maria MacLachlan, age 61, was told to refer to the young male-bodied transwoman who hit her using male strength and aggression as "she". Not only does this strike most fair-minded people as objectively wrong, it means that a victim giving evidence may be less able to tell their story because of constantly watching their words. And what happens in a rape case?

Yes exactly. Also it's a form of controlling behaviour calculated to make people walk on eggshells. It's another way to abuse a victim.

It must be so difficult being ‘woke’, when you haven’t a fucking clue what is going on. 🤣

Lol, this.

I won't refer to them as "she". I will avoid pronouns altogether as I don't believe she is appropriate for a male and I don't like being controlled by emotional blackmail and gaslighting.

Agreed. I will use a name or "they / them" but not "she / her" as it is a lie and I refuse to lie.

I've used "the person" on line often because I've no idea what they are and often been accused of being male on line anyway (because I like success, money, power, career presumably and do a lot of DIY) and I don't mind - I don't rush to the police shouting hate crime. I am made of sterner stuff.

Names do matter to people. When given an option on a call the other week I said I wanted the surname not the first name as I don't like people I don't know calling me by my first name - it's over familiar. Also I prefer Ms to Mrs although my bank persists with Mrs but it's not a big deal.

My workplace has a gym, swimming pool and toilets. All of them are unisex and it's not a problem. No one's died.

My workplace has a gym, swimming pool and toilets. All of them are unisex and it's not a problem. No one's died.

Ah. The old "my refrigerator's full so I can't understand why other people are hungry" trope.

My workplace has a gym, swimming pool and toilets. All of them are unisex and it's not a problem. No one's died.

Ah. The old "my refrigerator's full so I can't understand why other people are hungry" trope

Lol. Let them eat cake!!

I'm finding this thread really useful.
I tried to articulate these views to some friends a couple of days ago and I could tell they thought I was being "transphobic ". I've just been copying and pasting some well worded arguments from here into my notes to use for future reference !

Thanks in particular to Weetabix x

Yes Weetabix, I agree with the transsexaul woman on the radio that you stated, who have genuine got condition and have pursued surgery to change that so that they feel happier in their body. This GRA must be a slap in the face for them, and minimises or makes mockery out of a genuine condition. What with biological men, dressing up as women and parading their 'lady dick' on YouTube for all to see. Its just awful.

Or the likes of Karen White, using it to further their own ends and harming women.

I agree- Weetabix has made some really good points and there has generally been some good discussion which has been helpful.

As I said yesterday, re sport it’s is not necessarily a free for all at the higher levels - there are restrictions in place if you google Olympics trans or click my link further up. How far this goes and how fair I think we have yet to find out.

Also good to see some posts from yesterday being deleted.

I hope think that as much as we can disagree/agree on several points, the trans community also agree/disagree. I also think that a lot of us fear what we do not know or understand - which is why respectful discussion is good. I would have liked to hear more from Daphne what her trans ftm son has experienced.

"I honestly believe a trans woman would be at risk using male spaces and I do not think that it is reasonable to expect them to. That doesn’t mean women should automatically have to make way"

I agree with this 100%, @McTufty. If it is not safe for the trans women and trans girls to be around what they would call cis men, how can it possibly be safe to allow a policy that would permit a cis man predator to access the girls changing rooms or loos simply by saying "I identify as a woman"???

@Daphne65 - I would suggest that the reason that there are relatively few (though even one is too many) rapes and sexual assaults in places like women's changing rooms and loos is precisely because they are protected, female only spaces, and thus women and girls feel they can challenge men who are in there.

If self-ID were allowed, women and girls would no longer be able to challenge a man in the women's loos/changing rooms, even if he was 6'4" with a full beard, dressed in a men's suit - because he could simply say "I identify as a woman" and could go on to accuse them of a hate crime against him!!

Why, oh why do you want to REMOVE the protections that help keep down the numbers of sexual assaults on women and girls in female only spaces??

We wouldn't accept any other group being segregated because a minority of that group committed crimes

Would anyone accept white people forcing themselves into groups specifically for POC because they identify with being black? Was Rachel Dolezal warmly accepted once her race was revealed?

I’m sure someone will say it’s different, but I’d really appreciate it if you could tell me how it’s different. If anything, it’s more understandable because race legitimately is a spectrum in a way that sex is not.

I think it gives really mixed messages about consent and boundaries too. We're trying hard to teach young people that 'no means no' and that if something doesn't feel right then they must say so and, for example, tell their parents or a teacher.

But then so much of the self id guidance seems to be saying that women and girls should ignore their gut feelings about what is safe and what isn't, that no-one should be told if a there is someone with a male body using the girls dorm or changing room (out of a well meaning wish to protect trans confidentiality) - it goes against all our efforts to tell young people they have the right to feel comfortable and safe.

There is a tension between two groups' rights but I keep being told there isn't. It feels like gaslighting!

so, OP, you admit that you're absolutely pig ignorant about this topic, but that those of us who are fully informed are bigots?

That really is all kinds of stupid.

Here's Fair Play for Women's one click response for those who aren't as pig ignorant as the OP:

fairplayforwomen.com/email/

Totally Death, replace women with POC, and it would be totally unacceptable and insulting would never happen. It is not different, it is the same, both vulnerable minority groups.

Signed, thanks RiverTam

But there's no point in trying to have a rational conversation about it on here. Sadly it has become an echo chamber for those with extreme views on the subject

what exactly is extreme about asking how might legislation aimed at protecting a minority be abused by people not even of that minority to rape, sexually abuse, harass, and verbally abuse women (a majority group)? What is extreme about recognising that this legislation may be abused not by the minority it is aimed at supporting but by institutions going about their daily business? what is extreme about asking why the rights of some minority groups of women - such as Muslim women, for example - should be ignored for another minority group (the majority if which don't want to see any other groups come to any harm anyway)?

I am glad, OP, that nothing is happened in your life to make you need a women-only space. I hope nothing ever does happen that makes you need a women-only space. But just because you don't need it doesn't mean that the many, many women who do should have to accept a man in a suit and full beard sitting in that space because the claim to identify as a woman.

I am glad, OP, that nothing is happened in your life to make you need a women-only space.

thinking about this, imagine you are due a doctors appointment where you are being examined sensitively, if your doctor identifies as a female but still has a penis - would we be accused of transphobia for not wanting this? or for asking for a female born doctor?

Im genuinely intrigued to know how this would go down

i ask this because understandably there have been cases where people have been ridiculed for refusing treatment by docs/nurses from a specific race. So, would women be ridiculed for not wanting a doctor with a penis to examine them, because he identifies as a woman?

this is my concern for Muslim women in particular, OpinionCat especially when it comes to medical treatments/intimate examinations. It is not hard to envisage a male doctor just claiming to identify as a woman to avoid having to find a female doctor to do an examination. Or the surgery/hospital/clinic telling staff to say that to keep waiting lists down, that kind of thing. There is huge potential for abuse of these laws not only by individuals. It has sod all whatsoever to do with bigotry towards trans people.