To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

Please explain to me how your version of the world would work? A trans woman who transitioned fully years ago in your world now has to use the men's toilet? They have to publicly announce their status, that they are different, everytime they go to the toilet?

THIRD SPACES

What is the sex of the vast majority of the people carrying out these crimes?

I don't know. I assume male. So should we restrict all men then?

It's the same argument however you phrase it.

If people commit crimes we should prosecute them. Not restrict anyone who might possibly share a characteristic with them, just in case.

I mainly want a pause and a proper long review, because until there is genuinely an open public discussion there's no way of even agreeing basic terms.

I know that the Karen White case is an easy target. But until everyone arguing for self id can AGREE on whether that person is
a) a transwoman
b) a woman
c) a man claiming to be a transwoman
...then I don't know how to discuss it with them.

avegemite

Im curious now

What smear test comment

Was just....what?

I'm guessing not good

Ereshkigal

Third spaces works in some ways. But it does "out" people. It marks them as different.

Maybe this is the compromise that has to be made. I don't know.

But the law says that anyone with a GRC will be accepted as having changed sex. They will have the same rights as their chosen sex. I don't see how you can then legally choose not to allow them those rights. That surely would be seen as discrimination based on a protected characteristic.

Yes it would. Which is why some people would like to repeal the GRA. We are talking about around 5000 people here, which obviously UK wide is a very small number, it almost makes the point moot. I am not too fussed about the GRA in its current form, I absolutely don't want it reformed though.

However, the fact that this is now such an issue does show that the idea that men can become women, that they can actually change sex, is totally ridiculous.

But the law says that anyone with a GRC will be accepted as having changed sex. They will have the same rights as their chosen sex. I don't see how you can then legally choose not to allow them those rights. That surely would be seen as discrimination based on a protected characteristic.

You're correct that the law is a contradictory mess. But there is provision for MTF trans people even with GRCs to be excluded if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. As any TRA will tell you, while saying they want to abolish these exemptions in the next breath.

I don't know. I assume male. So should we restrict all men then?

We do restrict all men! We have sex segregated spaces! And it seems that some women have taken that for granted to such an extent that they don't even realise we have that.

weetabix do you accept the premise of sex based violence by men against women?

Third spaces works in some ways. But it does "out" people. It marks them as different.

Maybe this is the compromise that has to be made. I don't know.

Fair enough. But they are different. I don't see it as kinder to lie. Because unless they completely pass in every light as the opposite sex they will never be accepted as the opposite sex by many many people.

Third spaces works in some ways. But it does "out" people. It marks them as different.

But they are different. They just are.It's why transwomen are called 'transwomen'. The 'trans' prefix signifies that they are different, that they are actually male.

And there is not a single thing anyone can do about that without some kind of erosion to women's sex based rights.

Third spaces works in some ways. But it does "out" people. It marks them as different

I think it woukd really depend how it was done to be fair

Male, female and then a toilet for trans/non binary might be an issue

Male, female and then sex neutral might work as a fair few people probably wouldn't care and would use either male/female or sex neutral depending on the circumstances

@Weetabixandshreddies

So we should risk the safety of our sisters, mothers, daughters and friends because a man has decided he wants to a woman? he doesn't have to remove his penis in order to be allowed into changing rooms, on school trips, in toilets, prisons etc. ?
I'm sorry but if i were a moral human being who wanted to be the opposite sex, i would understand that other people will feel uncomfortable that their safe places are being compromised by me.

Acceptance is there, if you want to be a woman then whatever I dont care, but if that means you can now take your male penis into a vulnerable place where my daughter is - then you can fuck off.

and by school trips i mean where girls share rooms etc on overnight stays

I am happy to accept any TW making a reasonable effort to pass Into many female spaces eg toilets etc. I do not have a mandate to give this consent for all women.

Others, such as rape crisis centres and sport I am not.

I think there is a compromise to be had but it has to be one which listens to women and stops calling them TERFS and bigots for having an opinion on something which affects them.

Posters on here appear to be arguing that this shouldn't be the case. That they will never accept the rights of trans gender people to live as their chosen sex.

We have a system that allows for this currently - it takes time 2 years I think and requires medical input. I'm sure it's not prefect but it exits.

Self ID wants to do away with this.

TBH is seems that safeguarding is also something many trans activists want to weaken or do away with.

I'm fed up with trans activists saying stiff won't happen or having concerns about my children or eldery relatives is hate

Pink new's own survey found 80% of the public didn't want this yet it's been pushed behind closed doors with very little public debate and so many people in RL have no idea what is being proposed.

I think there is a compromise to be had but it has to be one which listens to women and stops calling them TERFS and bigots for having an opinion on something which affects them

I'm sure there is a compromise - or a reworking possible fo the current system but if our MPs are to scared to have that debate as apparently many of them are now - then it's not going to be found.

And this is where the law has to draw the line.

That as far as possible all rights will be balanced. But that sometimes, some people will have more rights in very specific circumstances.

Self ID is politics of the mad house. Allowing male prisoners to self ID and then transfer to female prisons is just unbelievable and actually I would like to see those responsible for making that decision being prosecuted in some way.

But I o support any trans gender person committed to going ahead with the process. I will see those as having changed sex.

I will also support those who choose to dress as the opposite sex. Wear whatever you want. I do believe though that they cannot expect to have the rights of the sex that they occasionally dress as.

Male, female and then sex neutral might work as a fair few people probably wouldn't care and would use either male/female or sex neutral depending on the circumstances

The problem with 'sex neutral' toilets is that men would still be able to access them, thus meaning that transwomen using them wouldn't be any safer than in the men's, wouldnt it?

I don't know I guess it depends on the reason for a transwoman wanting to use female toilets. If it's just for validation then a unisex space should be OK. If it's for safety from men then a unisex space wouldn't work. But then how come transwomen can say they want to feel safe from men, but women can't?

Weetabix if that is your stance then you and I are on a similar page, and it is the law as current. Do be aware though that the views you have given here would be seen as 'transphobia' by many people.

I honestly believe a trans woman would be at risk using male spaces and I do not think that it is reasonable to expect them to. That doesn’t mean women should automatically have to make way - as I said above, it depends.

Clearly there is a debate to be had and the #nodebate fanatics are the real bigots in my opinion.

Third Spaces doesn't help with men taking part in women's sport.

weetabix I have similar views, but have been told by a trans friend that that makes me transphobic. It's really sad. I've never known anything like this #nodebate situation

Clearly there is a debate to be had

Yes, this is it! I really appreciate people like Weetabix coming on and challenging some of the views here, rather than just plopping with 'bigot' and running off.

It is such a complex issues and it really fucks me right off when people say 'transwomen are women, and if you have any view which deviates from this you are a transphobic bigot'. It just shows such a lack of critical thinking for starters.

There are some questions for which there are no easy answers.

We do restrict all men

But I was talking very specifically about the situation in my area. An entire college on lock down because of a gang mugging people. They belong to a specific ethnic group. My question was do we restrict everyone in that group to protect the freedom of everyone else? The question was asked what sex these muggers are.

Male, female and then sex neutral might work as a fair few people probably wouldn't care and would use either male/female or sex neutral depending on the circumstances
I agree with this. We have to find a way to protect the rights of women to have a sex segregated space whilst also protecting the dignity of trans women and men. There must be a way to do this. I think having a gender neutral space is the way to go.

The situation in schools is very difficult. Maybe the issue of gender really needs to be addressed. So possibly having a gender neutral uniform? So any trans gender child will not have to identify themselves on a daily basis. Occasionally though they will have to accept being grouped with their birth sex. So on residential trips. But try to make gender less of an issue in schools so that there just isn't such an issue.