to think DS' school knows something the rest of us don't about Brexit?

[Satsumaeater]

This isn't a trip for his year group but they are organising a language trip to an EU country by air, leaving on, guess what, 29 March!

I think they come back on 3rd April or thereabouts.

I am a bit surprised to say the least. Do they have inside information that there will be a deal? They've also got a EU trip planned later in April but that was organised months before all this latest no-deal furore, and another one in July, but I'd probably expect things to have been sorted out (to an extent) by then, although they might have to get visas for the British passport holders at shortish notice.

Leaving on 29th seems like playing chicken to me; the kids (and teachers!) might not be able to get back.

Hmm interesting. The version I've read then goes on to say under national law, those wishing to enter and stay for longer than 3 months would be subject to a visa requirement. Hopefully something further will be published that clarifies exactly how they will be interpreting this

@JagerPlease

www.senat.fr/leg/pjl18-009.html

En cas de retrait du Royaume-Uni sans accord, les ressortissants britanniques qui jouissent du droit à la libre circulation et à la libre installation dans l'ensemble de l'Union européenne, ainsi que les membres de leur famille, deviendront des ressortissants de pays tiers et seront en conséquence en principe soumis au droit commun, c'est-à-dire à l'obligation de présenter un visa pour entrer sur le territoire français et de justifier d'un titre de séjour pour s'y maintenir.

In the event of withdrawal from the United Kingdom without an agreement, British nationals who enjoy the right to free movement and free installation throughout the European Union, as well as members of their families, will become nationals of Third countries and will therefore in principle be subject to the common law, i.e. the obligation to present a visa to enter the French territory and to justify a residence permit to maintain it.

'In principle'

In reality an agreement will be made.

A 'no deal' brexit will be known long before the 29th March and provisions will be in place before that for airline travel

Stop worrying people

I am not going to stop worrying on the assumption that provisions will be in place. They won't put themselves there and who exactly is going to put them in place? I have no confidence in a Government which has spent 28 months since the Referendum and as yet can't agree with what it wants to ask for.

amp.uk.businessinsider.com/open-skies-us-trade-deal-brexit-trump-2018-3

What provisions do you envisage will be in place when there is so little time left ? It certainly looks like the US are offering a very poor position for the UK which will have a huge impact.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/24/no-deal-brexit-would-halt-most-uk-spain-flights-industry-says#img-1

No deal Brexit could leave "thousands, millions stranded"

Pesky Industry experts.

But, but what about the Spanish tourist industry???? those pesky international regulations and agreements

Good grief! The world won't stop turning after Brexit. We go to non EU countries all the time now so why should it be any different afterwards. All this panic is ridiculous. Remember the millennium when experts said that all the computers in the world would shut down etc etc. Its people like you that cause hysteria!

Oh look - another "Nothing happened at the Millennium" believer blissfully unaware of all the hard work and preparation that went into making sure that nothing happened at the Millennium

Icantakemuch - why don’t you think it will be different after Brexit?

why don’t you think it will be different after Brexit?

Ooh, I know, I know! Pick me, sir! I learned it on another thread yesterday... It’s because Ta-da!

@Icanttakemuchmore

If things are not going to be much different, why is the UK spending £500m a week on achieving nothing? In fact, the Brexit politicians have achieved less than nothing, as the UK is losing all of the benefits that it currently enjoys.

Surely the whole point of Brexit, as promised by Johnson, Gove, Farage and the others is that things are going to be different. Very different. And the UK is supposed to get a £350m a week bonus and a huge Brexit dividend as well. Except as John Major has pointed out;

“If you look back at the Leave campaign, a great many of the promises they made were fantasy promises. We now know they are not going to be met." He continued: “Many of the things they said were absolutely pie in the sky. If you look at any possible deal we are going to get, and compare it to what people were promised with Brexit, there will be a gaping gap."

inews.co.uk/news/brexit/sir-john-major-second-brexit-referendum/

and a lot of what the remain campaign said was a lie.
if the result is leave there will be an emergency budget the following day
If the result is leave house prices will plummet
if the result is leave we will be plunged into an immediate recession

Please identify what lies the Remain campaign told

And remember that the Electoral Commission did find the Leave Campaign guilty of lying and breaking election spending rules And that the ONS censured the Leave campaign for lying misleading figures. Like that big £350 million/week for the NHS on the side of a bus

Incredible though it may be, people did travel to other European countries (and got back without incident) before we joined the EU.

llangennith
Indeed they did.
I arrived as an economic migrant to the UK before it joined the EU
but
shock horror
the world has changed quite a lot since then
and assuming that some sort of magical reversion to the past will happen
is cloud cuckoo land

Incredible though it may be, people did travel to other European countries (and got back without incident) before we joined the EU.

They did, but it was not as easy as it is now. This afternoon, if I want to I can go to Stansted and catch a plane to Copenhagen, Rome, Frankfurt or Paris just as easily as I can get a plane to Glasgow or a train to Plymouth. I don't need to ask anyone's permission or meet any conditions other than having a valid passport.

That all changes on 29th March, but with just 5 months to go, the government has yet to say what the changes will entail. The government's own papers state that in the event of No Deal, planes will be grounded. The French have issued draft legislation stating that UK citizens will require visas to enter France (and the rest of the Schengen area would follow suit). The Channel ports and Eurotunnel are predicted to clog up with freight traffic, which will surely be prioritised over holiday traffic. It is in everyone's interests that travel continues after 29th March, but with 750+ other agreements to get in place and time running out, travel in March and April 2019 might not be straightforward and might even not be possible for a while.

Before the UK joined the EU (or EEC as was) there were a number of restrictions on travel. Scheduled flights that were not charter flights (i.e. not part of a package holiday) could only be bought from travel agents, and only a few select airlines could fly passenger routes. Both the agents and the airlines charged through the nose for their virtual monopoly service. For a long time, UK travellers could only take £50 a year out of the country. All destinations east of the Iron Curtain required visas and many only allowed strictly monitored groups to enter the country. The UK cannot go back to pre-1973 travel agreements with Latvia, Slovenia, Czech Rep. or Estonia - these countries didn't exist as independent states then.

The freedom to travel seems today to be a natural state of affairs that most people take for granted. As the song goes 'You don't know what you got 'till it's gone.'

...and centuries ago, we did not need passports at all - people went where they wanted.

The world moves on...so your point is, llangennith ?

The UK now has one of the most restrictive visa regimes of the Western world. My dad was able to come to this country on a Commonwealth passport and the family was naturalised for very little cost. My aunt, still in South Africa, now needs to travel to Pretoria to get a visa and subject herself to very intrusive and rude questioning just so that she can visit her brother. A six month visa will cost £89. For a South African just wanting to transit Heathrow (ie not even leave the airport - Heathrow is after all a major hub ), it would cost them £34 for a transit visa

...and that's before even mentioning that there used to be capital controls, so you were restricted in how much money you could take on holiday. People used to pay for their transport as much as possible via the travel agent (eg to the very top of the Jungrau), so that they still had spending money.

Please identify what lies the Remain campaign told
well, the ones I posted just above your post

If you see the time stamps, you will see that I would have been typing my post at the time you posted yours, so wouldn't have seen it I'm not that fast a typer

You're right: Cameron, having called the referendum, then resigned rather than face up to the Clusterfuck (he will still get blamed for his share in it), so there wasn't an emergency budget. The pound did plummet though and the BoE did have to take emergency measures (yet more quantitative easing).

House prices haven't pummeted yet but the market is increasingly stagnant - rising at their slowest rate for 5 years. And we've not left yet. And the UK's own (Leave) Government is still predicting dire things about the housing market - only they're also wishing ill on Ireland:
Jim Pickard @pickardje
senior UK gov figure on the consequences for Ireland of a no-deal Brexit: “They would be hit the hardest, they would be fucked, less food security, smaller country, small economy, less ability to manoeuvre, if you think our house prices will fall 30% theirs will go down 50-60%”

The UK might might not be in a full blown recession (NB: we haven't left yet) but its growth sure as hell has suffered compared to the rest of the EU The UK shares the dubious accolade with Greece and Portugal of being the only EU countries not to have grown beyond where it was in 2008.

....remind me again, where are those "easiest deals in history"?

Of course we traveled before joining the EU. Just not as easily or cheaply. My family did for work. A lot. It was really difficult and expensive for their employer.

I read somewhere that if there isn't a deal then it would cause problems for flights from Ireland to Europe as they go through UK airspace. Also flights from Europe to America pass through UK controlled aviation pathways. On that basis I would think there would be some deal for airlines to continue flying as it would cause Europe as many problems as us not to.

Airspace and air traffic control are a separate issue. There hasn't been any suggestion from experts that that would be affected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/24/no-deal-brexit-would-halt-most-uk-spain-flights-industry-says

vandrew they weren’t lies. They were predictions.
And they are still to be verified as we haven’t actually left yet so how could we know what the effect will be in reality??

That’s very different than the statement in the red bus which we know was a lie because that money has never been available in the first place (calculations not taking everything into account such as the money we do receive from the EU).
Plus Boris Johnson etc... acknowledged anyway that the money would never have been available for the NHS anyway.....