to think DS' school knows something the rest of us don't about Brexit?

[Satsumaeater]

This isn't a trip for his year group but they are organising a language trip to an EU country by air, leaving on, guess what, 29 March!

I think they come back on 3rd April or thereabouts.

I am a bit surprised to say the least. Do they have inside information that there will be a deal? They've also got a EU trip planned later in April but that was organised months before all this latest no-deal furore, and another one in July, but I'd probably expect things to have been sorted out (to an extent) by then, although they might have to get visas for the British passport holders at shortish notice.

Leaving on 29th seems like playing chicken to me; the kids (and teachers!) might not be able to get back.

And if there is a hard Brexit
school groups who arrived in the EU before the 29th as EU citizens would suddenly become non EU citizens
and thus be illegal entrants

• uninsured
• unauthorised
• unwelcome

I find it astonishing that schools have planned trips that roll over that date.

Ive been to non-EU countries before, without being uninsured, unauthorised and unwelcome

The Independent failed to put in the 3 months bit but papers are quite good at missing out bits of information. The 3 month bit dampens the impact.

Aren't you means tested to enter Canada, I seem to recall something about bank statements on the visa thing and probably other countries as well, and plenty visit there

The banks statements for Canada may have been for longer visits, it was something I saw when looking at the visa thing to see how long before we need to submit, it is something to do with proving that you will not stay there after a stay, like having residence in the uk. A holiday needs an eta which is a different thing. Maybe the UK will have to do something like that with different sorts of entrance documents depending on whether it’s a holiday or a longer stay

The EU are already planning on introducing an ETIAS in the next few years anyway (which will be very similar to an ESTA) so likelihood is we will end up needing one to travel.

Do I think a school trip over Exit day is a good idea? No, mainly because of potential travel disruption. But the children won't become illegal because they will still have visa free travel as tourists. In fact, there are even provisions for non EU children to travel visa free as part of a school group when they're of a nationality who would normally require a visa.

The risk of sudden illegality on Exit day is higher for UK nationals working in the EU who may cease to have appropriate permission. Issues for UK nationals living in the EU in a no deal are far from resolved. There are so many things that could go massively wrong, but the ability of UK nationals to enter as tourists really isn't up there as a risk

It's the likely disruption onthe day and around the day that would put me off. It only takes one small delay - even for a mundane reason- for a massive knock on effect. I'm going in May/June and my fingers are crossed.

Hopefully by May/June it will be OK and settled down, DH is going on the 6th April by ferry for an event. I did warn him... Also it is the school holidays in April and the first main holiday getaway time of the year which doesn't help with the timing of Brexit

Jager
But the children won't become illegal because they will still have visa free travel as tourists.
NO, No, NO
Visa free travel for tourists is for countries with appropriate Deals with the EU
If there is a No Deal Brexit
British people will not be covered by ANY sort of deal
so they will be under the same category as folks off smuggling boats.

Minty
Ive been to non-EU countries before, without being uninsured, unauthorised and unwelcome
So you snuck in without going through any border controls ?
Or did you use your UK passport and the Treaty deal rights that gave you
to enter those countries.

FFS its really obvious.
If the UK leaves the EU without a deal it leaves EVERY DEAL that its in as part of the EU
Which is a bad thing

Everything will be fine.

I hope so
but I place no reliance on our politicians making it so

Flora - why do you think everything will be fine. I’m currently watching the news and everything is indicating a hard Brexit.

OK firstly you can't be an illegal entrant if you entered legally.

It's up to any country to determine which nationalities require a tourist visa. That is not contingent on a deal between those countries, although obviously lots of countries make reciprocal arrangements. The EU act as a bloc insofar as if a country requires one EU MS to hold a tourist visa, all EU countries will impose visa requirements on that country. There are however lots of countries who allow visa free tourism for UK nationals, but are required to get a visa to travel to the UK.

I direct you again to the draft French law. They are not proposing that UK nationals will need visas as tourists, even in a no deal. And you will not find a reputable source that says otherwise

Do they know something you don't?? Are you for real?

OK firstly you can't be an illegal entrant if you entered legally.
WINDRUSH
The UK Home office has deported and detained dozens if not hundreds of people who arrived in the UK
PERFECTLY LEGALLY
but then the Home Office moved the goal posts

Some of them even had UK passports which the Home Office confiscated and then declared them illegally resident

What on earth makes you think it will not be the same with EU and British citizens after a hard Brexit?

Windrush is a completely different scenario, where people (due to the length of time etc) couldn't demonstrate their legal entry. I'm not defending that in any way, just saying the situation is very different now. Anyone entering the EU in the run up to Exit will clearly be able to demonstrate their entry based on travel bookings.

There are huge amounts of things to worry about regarding Brexit. This really isn't the one to focus on

No, it is the SAME scenario.
Its the SAME scenario as why I got locked up by UK customs

The UK did not do Exit stamps, so I could not prove I'd only been abroad a few weeks
and the other stamps in my passport did not satisfy them.

A group of teenagers with no evidence of how long they have been in the country - no passport stamps remember ......

The UK would give them a hard time.
Expect the rest of the EU to reciprocate
or pray for a sensible Brexit deal.

Oh dear, nothing will change on 29th of march. The world will keep on spining.

What is spining ?

What is spining ?

I think it's something that Millennium Bugs do when they scuttle around.

You've clearly had a bad experience but respectfully, this is nothing like Windrush. The Windrush generation had no evidence of lawful entry because they travelled on parents passports, and clearly would no longer have proof of their travel arrangements. Clearly any UK national travelling now would be able to prove they booked their travel prior to Exit. That's if it mattered, which it won't, as we still won't need tourist visas.

And no, the UK won't come down hard on groups of EU teenagers who travel to the UK before Exit. In fact, they'd be eligible for pre settled status if they decided to take up residence here

Well, we got stranded in France for a few days on a school trip due to a coach and train drivers' strike. Sure it was stressful for our teacher but it was the best part for us - we had a whale of a time! Seems a bit odd that the school doesn't seem to have considered the possibility that something may go wrong though (and I doubt insurance will cover it).

Jager
Yes I had a bad experience with UK customs.
That was because I was not British
Brits are so unbelievably complacent about how the world will treat them,
especially when the UK treats ALL foreigners so badly

And no, the UK won't come down hard on groups of EU teenagers who travel to the UK before Exit
The UK is clamping down or Forriners before Brexit
It will get worse after ....

UK immigration are revolting. The arrogance and condescension with which they treat non-EU people is quite breathtaking. I’m white and from a wealthy Western country, I can’t even imagine what they’re like with people of colour and/or from less prosperous lands.

Here's a story for you:

As a teacher I was travelling with a group of 12-year-olds on a school trip from Paris to London (Eurostar). This being an international school we had a variety of nationalities on board, EU and non-EU.
I asked the French authorities which students I should send through first: EU or non-EU. They opted for EU first.
I then asked the British authorities the same question. Their response?
"Oh, it doesn't matter. Just leave the Ghanaians and Indians to the end."
THESE CHILDREN ARE TWELVE YEARS OLD REMEMBER.

I have had similar experiences when flying from Paris to Birmingham with schoolchildren. Followed around the airport like criminals and then Birmingham airport officials had no clue what to do with us when we got there.

They are targeting the wrong people for sure - but anyone who thinks Britain doesn't have control of its borders is dead wrong.

@JagerPlease
I direct you again to the draft French law. They are not proposing that UK nationals will need visas as tourists, even in a no deal. And you will not find a reputable source that says otherwise

How odd - the draft version that I read says: c'est-à-dire à l'obligation de présenter un visa pour entrer sur le territoire français et de justifier d'un titre de séjour pour s'y maintenir.

[After no agreement Brexit, UK citizens become third nation citizens] and will be obliged to have a visa to come to France and a carte de sejour to stay