That a male just won a women’s cycling World Championship?

[Badmoonsarising]

Can’t really get my mind round this tbh though i was aware of another male Laurel Hubbard taking medals in the Women’s Weight Lifting World Championships earlier this year. Are we really ready for males winning the Women’s Wimbledon Title and the women’s Olympic 100m Final?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/15/trans-woman-rachel-mckinnon-cycling-world-championship/amp/

And if I am an able bodied athlete and identify as disabled I can compete in the Paralympics?

Because disability is a physical, biological condition of the body, just like sex.

For reference, for my fellow geeks.

Normal male testosterone is anywhere between 10 and 30 nmol/litre.

Men do not receive treatment for low testosterone until they hit about 8 nmol/litre.

The IOC limit for testosterone in female events (to encompass women with androgen insensitivity and also transwomen) is 10 nmol/litre.

The female population as a whole has an average testosterone level of 1.5nmol/litre. Women with PCOS typically have testosterone levels of 2.5nmol/litre.

10nmol/litre is (in terms of its unlikeliness in the female population) 5 sigma above the female mean.

Here's what five sigma means, taken from the physics.org website:
"5 sigma is a measure of how confident scientists feel their results are. If experiments show results to a 5 sigma confidence level, that means if the results were due to chance and the experiment was repeated 3.5 million times then it would be expected to see the strength of conclusion in the result no more than once."

And of course T is not the whole story. Men have much greater VOMax (measure of lung capacity/ability to oxygenate blood) and that doesn't go away when they take testosterone suppressants (and VOMax is massively important in cycling - it's one of the measures used in men's pro cycling to assess how likely someone is to be doping). They're taller on average, have a different angle between hip and thigh bone, greater grip strength...

TLDR: McKinnon is a cheaty McCheat face.

The Emperor is well and truly starkers. Thank you, Rachel, for peak-transing me completely, and giving me that last little bit of impetus I needed to email Women’s Hour, sign some petitions, and buy myself an Adult Human Female T-shirt. Your victory has been truly inspiring.

But ash says different

Im so confused!!!

(Im not really, ive seen the same information fermats has which is why im waiting for a link)

I suspect Ash won't be back. Just a hunch ...

Yes it’s a bloke, look at his body compared to the two women, no bloody chance. The world has gone bonkers, the handmaids tale is becoming an ever closer reality!

orchid

Noooo!!

The cynicism!!

What is the point of sporting competitions being separated by sex if men who feel like women can compete in women’s categories

We have obviously had it too much our own way for a few years and now men are back to put us in our place

Ash has daughters by the look of it. What a shame she's throwing them under the bus as well.

McKinnon’s sport was badminton and only took up cycling when the moved and badminton was not on the cards. Not too bad for a late starter. Also given the age group I imagine many of the actual female competitors have had to contend with dealing with pregnancy, birth raising young children etc.

I think my obese unfit as fuck DH could have a cracking career in women's netball. 6 foot 7 gives you absolutely no advantage whatsoever in making shots into the basket doesn't it? Perfectly attainable height for the average woman to compete equally against.

I mean it's all about the gender feelz innit?

These men lack the social inhibitions that would make it too embarrassing for most males to claim this as a 'victory'. They have personality disorders.

They have personality disorders

They are self-indulgent cheats. I am utterly disgusted by them and the enabling sports organisations.

I am so shocked that this is allowed to happen!

That picture of him (yes, him) on that podium is sickening as is the smug look on his face.

The whole thing is absolutely farcical and I’m sure the two women, the true gold and silver medalists, can see how ridiculous it is too. I hope they’re smiling inside because they know full well what the public think of the spectacle and that in their eyes the top 3 women (not the man who thinks he’s a woman) are deserving of the medals.

The whole thing is ludicrous.

McKinnon is a cheat. I'm glad the women who were cheated out of their medals are all speaking up. I hope the whole competitive cycling world is behind them.

Trans female athletes need to have their testosterone levels checked before competing and those levels actually need to be lower than non trans females.

I see that nonsense has been dealt with by fermat.

A trans woman trained her arse off for an event and won while sticking to competition rules and now I’m angry because I’m so entitled I feel like this means everything is being taken from me. Oh bore off.

Interesting how women's participation in sport is deemed 'entitled'. Uppity women. Having something of their own not pre approved by men.

McKinnon is a woman hating cheat. Contemptible. You're in good company.

"They have personality disorders"

Can we not start demonising people with personality disorders?

Conflating PD and trans issues is just going to confuse matters further.

There are many many lovely trans people. I may not agree with their views on gender, but that doesn't make them mentally ill. Equally, there are many people with PD who are perfectly kind and lovely people.

TheSteakBakeOfAwesome

I think my obese unfit as fuck DH could have a cracking career in women's netball. 6 foot 7 gives you absolutely no advantage whatsoever in making shots into the basket doesn't it?

Meet Gabrielle Ludwig. The 52-year-old Canadian women's collegiate basketball player.

Canadian women have lost. Self ID is law. They are amazed and heartened by UK feminists' pushback.

There are many many lovely trans people. I may not agree with their views on gender, but that doesn't make them mentally ill.

Gender dysphoria was certainly considered a mental illness. It was the DSM-V. Activists lobbied for that to be changed, though. It is still considered a 'medical condition'.

And autogynephilia (a paraphilia causing arousal at the thought of oneself as a woman), comes with a heavy dose of other mental health issues. Transvestite fetishism is still in the DSM-V.

Apart from those two reasons to transition, what else is there?

That photo is ridiculous. WTF is going on in this world? How can anyone take this seriously?!

datun It doesn't make them mentally ill in terms of having a PD is what I wanted to say.

Whether it is or isn't a mental illness is a subject of much debate, and not really relevant to this thread. Personally, I just would rather people don't say 'they have a PD' as if a. it's an insult and b. it is fact.

Are the other women in the race now speaking up? I hadn't seen that. Good for them.

If only the suffragettes hadn't identified as females, all their suffering could have been easily reduced .

ThisIsTheFirstStep

I don't think it's meant personally, or as a judgement about personality disorders.

Gender dysphoria is clearly something that is diagnosed and treated. It's a real and crippling illness. And AGP is a fetish.

Comorbid mental health issues are extremely high amongst transgender people. With the most prevalent being narcissism.

You and I are probably approaching this with our own different concerns. My concern is that gender dysphoria was a cornerstone of being transgender, and that is now being removed. The assumption being that it's now a 'social movement' of some description. A sign of the times. A new way of looking at identity. And we're all hopelessly old-fashioned and out of date for not getting it.

No.

A social movement that reduces safeguarding, dismantles women's boundaries, deprives them of representation and, now, erases them in sport?

Self identification is a move to eliminate all criteria for being transgender. So there is no such thing as the category woman.

So my approach is no, it needs to remain something that you diagnose and treat.

It's not meant as a judgement on people with mental health issues or personality disorders.