Avocados aren’t vegan?

[Tunnockssnowballs]

AIBU to think this is a bit OTT or should Vegans think twice about eating avocados and almonds because bees are harmed and killed in the farming process.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6269825/amp/Avocados-almonds-broccoli-NOT-vegan-dieters-favorite-ingredients-break-rules.html

Working link www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6269825/amp/Avocados-almonds-broccoli-NOT-vegan-dieters-favorite-ingredients-break-rules.html

Have to go back to eating grass and leaves so

The thing is every food has an environmental impact, doesn’t it? Soya is grown in great swathes of torn down rainforest, factories process food, cattle produce methane. It goes on and on. So yea, I think this is OTT as otherwise vegans will have to be like that couple that reckon they never eat anything.

If vegans went down that route they wouldn't be able to eat anything at all.

But it’s a very similar reason why vegans don’t eat honey, is that right?

I thought they didn't eat honey because honey is an animal product and they don't eat animal products?

I don't eat honey not because I'm vegan but because it's basically bee vomit. 🤮

I think honey industry is cruel because they take the honey away from the bees and give them sugar water instead. I could be wrong.

I thought they didn’t eat honey because bees are killed in the process.

I saw this on QI the other day. There's apparently quite a few exotic fruit that rely on bees being farmed in unnatural ways.

I don't think many vegans are aware of this, and most aren't strict enough for it to be an issue even if they were. My aunt is vegan, but wasn't aware of this issue until the QI programme. She doesn't eat exotic fruit anyway because she's on too strict a budget, but she wouldn't now she knows it's not strictly vegan.

It’s a bit like how vegans don’t have shellac nail polish because some Beetles die in the process of collecting the secretions (I think?)

It’s really tricky because where do you draw the line?

I mean broccoli? Who knew that was bad

Jeez my shampoo contains urea which comes from pigs urine (listed as an ingredient) and urea is in lots of beauty products so they'd all be out for vegans too.

I think most vegans are pretty hot on cosmetics and there’s lots to choose from out there that doesn’t contain things like that

'They', the vegans, are not homogenous. There is no rule book, stating what they are and are not 'allowed', nor a set of approved reasons.

People eat what they choose to. Many apply ethical ideas to these choices. Vegans are people whose choices, ethical or otherwise, have taken them to a particular dietary point. People become and remain vegan for a whole swathe of different reasons.

So if you'd like one vegan's take on why they eat what they eat and where exactly they draw the line, you could ask one vegan, and that's what you'd get.

Honey isn’t eaten because it is secreted by the bees, not because they die. And shellac is the same-it’s a secretion.

Haggisfish I’m not sure about that. My friend was pretty clear it’s because it’s cruel as the bees can die during collection.

Honey is an animal product so that's why vegans don't eat it. Bees make honey so they can survive over winter. But instead we nick it and give them a syrup replacement which doesn't sustain them for long winters and many honey bees die as a result.

The argument against avos is that bees are forcibly migrated to pollinate some crops and as it's impossible to tell which avos have been grown using this method, QI suggested that avocados weren't vegan.

It's the same basic argument trotted out as you can't buy vegan burgers from MacDonalds as they also sell meat burgers.

Ultimately veganism is about avoiding harm wherever possible and while some farming techniques are less than ideal - including pesticides that kill insects etc - it isn't correct that avocados aren't vegan as a result.

lottiegarbanzo That’s interesting. I thought you had to follow a set of specific rules to follow the vegan diet so for example you can’t eat eggs and call yourself a vegan even though you haven’t killed an animal in doing so.

Not a vegan
But the urine aspect would depend if it was a natural by-product (ie pigs peeing on the floor which is siphoned off - okay , or things like HRT where mares are kept continually pregnant and catheterised to get the urine - not ok)

And I'm always very suspicious of products that say "Vegan" but when you look at the Animal Testing , not so good.

I know people who keep bees and they say they're very ethical and free range , though I don't know if any of the bee larvae end up in the honey ?

So the Vegan society’s definition is

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

So it is about exploiting animals which this definitely is. Bees are absolutely being exploited in the growing of avocados.

My cousin keeps bees and leaves half the honey which is plenty for the bees to live off

I’m just curious as I am veggie and have been considering the Vegan diet but this just seems like a rabbit hole....

The bees might have been forcibly migrated to pollinate some crops, but the bees don't know that. They will have been pollinating everything else in the vicinity as well. Which would technically put that out of bounds for vegans too. But how you be able to tell which crops they were?