Avocados aren’t vegan?

[Tunnockssnowballs]

AIBU to think this is a bit OTT or should Vegans think twice about eating avocados and almonds because bees are harmed and killed in the farming process.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6269825/amp/Avocados-almonds-broccoli-NOT-vegan-dieters-favorite-ingredients-break-rules.html

You could say animals are killed in the making of most food. The field opposite me is often full of skylarks (birds), they nest on the ground but are often killed when it comes to ploughing and planting crops.

Well, let's say vegans suddenly can't eat anything at all - that would solve one of the other problems on MN - overpopulation - sorted!

I think you're confusing the idea of ethical eating and veganism. There is certainly a cross over, but a vegan will choose the products they consume (including toiletries and clothes as well as food) based on if this is an animal product, ie is it directly made by an animal eg meat, fish, eggs, honey, leather, some cosmetics. Eating ethically means coming to your own judgement on which products cause the least damage to the environment, so this may include eggs from your own chickens for example, locally grown veg, trying to avoid 12p bananas that have flown halfway around the globe, soy products etc.

I was vegan for a few years, now I don't really identify as anything. I made the choice that putting a label on what I was was putting pressure on every meal, and I didn't want that, so now I make decisions on my purchases based on what I feel is right, that does mean that I still largely eat plant based, I avoid soy and palm oil, but I also consider factors such as food miles and the nutritional benefit of a choice - things are getting a lot better in the last few years but I was quite unwell as a vegan as I eat out a lot/travel and there are only so many plates of chips/crisps and an apple that can sub in for a meal on the go before your body starts to rebel. I look at it that any small change I can make is beneficial for the environment, less food miles, less processing, less plastics, but if I make a choice every now and again that involves a bar of Galaxy then I that's a choice I'm happy with and it doesn't define my whole existence.

Bugs fly into and die on windscreens all the time, do vegans give up driving?

I think we need to stop putting labels like vegan into things and eat what we want. So if you think eating honey is bad for bees, don’t do it. The dairy industry I can understand, but not for avacados. Sure, listen to the arguments and decide for yourself.

Defo don’t google how figs happen...... makes for chilling reading

70s there is no risk of bee larvae contaminating honey, at least in small, independent hives. The queens are kept in a separate box called a brood box, with a mesh between that and the other boxes above. The queens are bigger than regular bees and so the mesh prevents them from moving up into the other areas of the hive, so all the eggs and larvae are completely separate. Honey is made throughout the comb and only harvested from the boxes above where the Queen lives. A good beekeeper will only take the excess honey, leaving enough stores for the hive to survive the winter. Sugar syrup is used to top up the store if the winter is particularly hard, bee keepers look after their bees and without them the bees would die out completely.

I find vegans who go on about the environmental issues with the dairy industry etc really irritating, especially when they're downing almond milk like it's going out of fashion. Please don't preach to me about the environment when you have no objection to palm oil and you're getting most of your protein from soya. See also vegans who shop at Primark.

I saw a study done a few years ago that concluded that a pescatarian diet is actually best for the environment. In the end it's less about cutting out whole food groups and just being more aware of where it's coming from. I think that all we can do is to consume products that are seasonal and locally sourced. If you're going to eat eggs or meat then make sure they are the best quality you can afford.

The fields around where I live are heaving with skylarks every year. Somehow, all those actively harvested grain fields, the skylarks continue.

I think working out your own ethics is very important. I don't think what label you use is important at all other than giving other people an idea of what you will and wont eat when going out for food!

Strawberries grown in polytunnels also have bees brought in for pollination.

This is an interesting thread! Thanks op.

The honey thing isn’t because bees are killed, it’s because vegans don’t consume any products directly produced by animals - so no milk because it’s made by cows, and similarly no honey because it’s made by bees. It isn’t because of the death of an animal. They just think all products that come from animals are exploitative

It widely known that palm oil is terrible, every vegan I know avoids it.

A bit on farming.
The situation describe in the article takes place largely in the USA where they have essentially killed their natural bees populations through their shit farming practices by spraying pesticides whenever they wanted rather than "time" themselves properly with the stages of the trees AND due to a type of parasite that is exterminating bee hive populations.

The imports of bees ( from Australia as one example) allow these trees to be pollinated and for their crops to therefore develop. There is literally no other option in America than to use these transportable bee populations. They are really careful with them, split hives regularly so the bees don't die and use every care they can. The bees are super, super valuable.

Exceptionally little research is being done worldwide into this parasite and how to 'cure" for it. Do any reading about it and there is or was a few years ago, only ONE man in Australia doing any substantive research and his funding has been cut.

Rather than twisting up people pants about whether this is ethical for vegans, focus the energy onto talking about what happens to world food supplies if all the bees die. Quite simply, a large part of our food supply is gone, should this happen.

And on responsible spraying, unfortunately necessary on commercial farms.

Once a tree flowers and a farmer has not yet sprayed for pests, best practice is to spray once the sun has gone down and the bees are dormant , back in their hives. This is why farmers spray for moths and particular types of beetles at night. The chemical we use in Australia cannot be transported back to the hive from the tree flowers and the bee population is not harmed.

Ideally, no spraying would take place but there isn't that much research going into developing better protection from pests either.

Fruits and vegetables aren't vegan because insects pollinate the flowers. The bloody bees or other insects can't win.

My cousin keeps bees and leaves half the honey which is plenty for the bees to live off
My DF does the same.

I am curious if vegans buy vegan food grown by vegans and sold by vegans?

Worker bees only last 6 weeks anyway it's the queen that stays alive for years not all honey is harvested the bees should be given sufficient time to build up stores and sugar substitute isnt used unless its necessary

Unless they are being farmed

My point ultimately OP is, do the best you can to do whatever you think is best. Don't let confusion by external definitions or any sense of inadequacy in the face of complex issues and imperfect responses, prevent you from doing your own little bit towards achieving what you consider to be the right thing.

If we all sat around waiting to be able to do things perfectly before we attempted them, or gave up trying because others, who don't even care about our aims and beliefs, teased us about doing what we believe in imperfectly, no-one would ever do anything.

It isn’t because of the death of an animal. They just think all products that come from animals are exploitative

Milking cows and bee keeping are two totally different things. You don't exploit bees because they are free to fly wherever they want. They can even leave the beehive and never return. They make honey and they love bringing it into the beehives as they are cosy. The bee keeper looks after the bees, feeds them and doesn't collect all the honey as it is essential for bees to have some in the beehives.

I wish people would eat ethically, that’s all.

I read an article that said that almost nothing is truly vegan, which rather begs the question "Why bother?"
Because every time you choose something plant based rather than an animal product, even it's only once a day, it is better for the planet.

I've seen a horrible video of industrial honey collection, honey being scraped off the comb by machine with no heed paid to bees. I've taken to only buying British origin honey from small beekeepers.

We’ve all seen Bee Movie. We know what happens when we let the bees keep their honey.