To be disappointed about my DD’s future

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My DD is in yr11 and until this year had not shown any interest in learning/the future. I have been trying everything to get her to focus and this year it really hit her that she had to try harder. But it’s too late. She’s not unintelligent FYI.

Her forecast GCSE grades are pretty rubbish. She’s going to scrape a 5 in English if she’s lucky. Everything else a 3 or 4.

I now don’t know what to do or how to help her. I think going on an apprenticeship isn’t always the answer. She can’t get into the 6th form with grades like this. But she has her heart now set on doing a particular BTech and a particular A Level. I don’t want to have to be the one to tell her she can’t do these (if this is the case) as she has no other plan.

I don’t even really know what the options are for her yet, not sure whether to encourage her into an apprenticeship, college, do retakes.

AIBU I’m disappointed FOR her and IN her that it will come to this and feels like it will be a hard few years ahead for her. I don’t want her in minimum wage jobs - she is demoralised enough as it is. On the other hand a lot of this is all her own fault.

OP I have a dd also in Y11 who has dyslexia and has been totally switched off school since reception when she decided she was thick and never recovered.

Until now. She is doing some work now. I feel for her, but she is now really starting to think ‘what next’ and that’s fantastic. Your dd is thinking about it too and it’s brilliant.

Ive gone from panic/disappointment to a much better place now. What Ive found works is just getting to the nub of what sparks her enthusiasm. For my dd it’s money! She wants to get out of school, do a college course, get a part time job. I have bags of empathy for where she’s at and I’ve let go of the idea of A-levels and uni and am just backing her all the way. My dd has got fantastic people skills. She may not pass GCSE maths this year (she might) but she’ll go far in life anyway. Am actually quite relieved at not having to support her through uni as a LP! And look forward to seeing how her life goes. We keep the dialogue open and positive at all times.

Have a chat to your dd, ask her what it is in the BTEC business studies she finds interesting, see if you can explore with her what fires her up and think laterally about it all.

My dd seems to be honing in on the idea of the next phase of her life and yours is too. That’s to be applauded.

You sounds like a lovely parent

Thanks. I suppose my fear is having an unemployed teenager who isn’t doing anything. Not that my fear is her not going to uni!

I have tried to talk to her this afternoon off the back of this thread but she’s not keen on looking around colleges. Where do you want to look DD? Nowhere. Do you want to look at apprenticeships? No

But it's a big decision at that age to think about what you want to do etc.

Personally I'd get her to focus on the core subjects as that's what will be needed for a lot of different things, including some apprenticeships.

If you can get her to really work, fives will give her more options. The tiers of entry may not be set yet either so if she showed a marked improvement that might change

Those are quite closed questions, OP. Getting teens to talk is really hard. How about this sort of question, ‘talk to me about the Business Studies BTEC...’ That might be a better way in, OP.

OP you are clearly a great Mum and I'm sorry you have received negative comments.

Y11 is very stressful - just been there with a relatively underperforming DC (due to immaturity in our case) but there is plenty of time to bump up the grades if she'll knuckle down now. My DC made up 3 grades in a couple of sciences and 2 in another from January so later than you. I agree working through revision books and questions is helpful.

Personally I would contact school and ask for a meeting this week before half term. DD needs to hear from them that her 6th form chances are limited unless she makes up grades.

I agree that for an immature child school is probably better than college - certainly local to us.

Good luck - you deserve some good grades next summer xx

A couple of things spring to mind, OP:

a) why are you so adamant that she can only look at apprenticeships commonly done by girls? Do you know for a fact that she would not be suited to an apprenticeship in electricity/plumbing/decorating? These are hardly the kind of people who end up on minimum wages and some customers might actually prefer a woman coming to look at their leaking bathroom or fire-breathing chandelier.

b) could you gently suggest to her that maybe she wants to look further and think more widely? might it be that she thinks of psychology and sociology because she has internalised that those are the kind of things women do?

c) might it be a good idea (as I did with my ds in similar situation) to very calmly keep reiterating that unless she goes to uni, she will have to get a job by 18, so at that point it isn't about the ideal situation, it's just something that is going to happen? (ime you need to stay very calm and matter-of-fact at this point, also helps if you can make it clear that you will not be disappointed)

ds has been in very similar situation, still hasn't passed his maths GCSE but keeps resitting, otherwise quite bright, dropped out of A-levels after a year and restarted on a 2-year Btec, is now in his last year and has decided he is not keen on police force after all, looking at apprenticeships, would quite like plumbing but says he will take what he can get.

In his case, I think it has helped that his (large) extended family is quite divided: half of us are very academic (lecturers and professors), the other half are skilled workers (carpenters, merchant navy) or office workers and everybody is doing well and satisfied, so there is no sense that one route is the Right One.

I'm a teacher. Kids who lack academic ability but are prepared to work hard often end up doing well. If your daughter has a poor attitude and is disruptive, she'll be kicked out of sixth form and sacked from an apprenticeship, as these settings don't have to tolerate the things a secondary school tolerate. If she gets in trouble at school, do you give her any consequences at home?it's the parents role to enforce the expectations of school and to make sure that kids do the best they can. Why are you tolerating her disruptiveness and laziness?

Is it realistic to think between now and May she can go from a 3 to a 5 in science or 3 to 6 in other subjects?
My son got a 3 on a mock English literature exam three weeks before he took the real thing. He took the advice on board, worked his butt off and got a 6. He didn’t even decide to take physics until just before Christmas; he got an A. It is more than doable for a smart child who wants it.

I’ve talked to DD and now I need to talk to School. She believes School have made it crystal clear there will be no moving of sets now (Dd2 in year 10 confirms this has been said by her HOY too). So she can get a 6 in everything except maths and science if she tries but they won’t be changing sets and won’t be putting her into higher papers for those regardless. They have also confused her by saying they would get back to her about getting in to 6th with lower grades then had an assembly saying no exceptions for 6th form entry grades.

I haven’t tolerated anything I’ve worked with School at every point of her behaviour, she’s had appropriate punishments and has now apparently learnt her lesson. I’m not going to continue to punish her when she is behaving and trying. I think her attitude is down to immaturity in the main and she is emotionally behind her peers at times perhaps.

I am not ruling out plumbing or engineering but she has never shown any interest in any of these courses (she could have chosen these in year 9) and neither does she in any of the traditionally stereotypical female roles like childcare or hairdressing. I am actually peeved by it being so heavily weighted (locally) to these traditional roles and think it would be interesting to see something more non gender stereotypical and more interesting and likely to grab her interest. I think you know if you fancy being a mechanic or you don’t fancy it. And I don’t want her to choose a role she doesn’t want to do for the sake of choosing something.

I understand your concerns but I think you could be putting too much pressure on her at this stage. You said she feels demoralised currently so if this was me, I'd totally focus on what she does well & stop, for a time, talking about the future. Deal with the present & you can both build from there.

There is time for her to turn it round but as with anyone...the more you push one direction, the more they go in the other.

I think you need to speak to the teachers about your daughter and grades required. They may say one thing in assembly because they want students to get good results- remember schools have to have good results for league tables etc. The more students attend sixth form, the more money they get. So they may bend the rules more than you realise. However, they may be one of the few schools who are extremely strict on entry requirements (tho from what your daughter says it doesn’t sound like it) If you speak to the teachers you may be able to find out. If your daughter wants to stay and has to get 6 then you need to make it clear that if this is what she wants she needs to work her area off. Supervise her homework and ensure she’s putting the time in.

I think she’s doing well right now but easily gets demoralised. Right now she has all her science books laid out and she’s revising

Also have this afternoon booked college open evenings/put the dates in my diary - told her we need to at least look around them as an alternative plan

Doesn’t seem interested in apprenticeships but it’s one of 3 options isn’t it and that has to be one of them!

It may be an idea to get her to do the National Citizen Scheme thingy after GCSE. I know part of it involves doing something for charity - organising an event I believe. That would be good practice for Business Studies (if she chooses that).

She can do it with extra tuition. Donthe school offer any after hours workshops to help with work and study? If not what about a local tutor.

I think her tutor needs to help her really focus on the core subjects (English maths) then work on the rest.

She’s in group after school tutorial but think she needs 1:1
Am looking out for a tutor

Ok so my ds failed all his mocks (Dec of Yr 11). He was in middle ability sets all the way through and I sat down and drew up a plan with him to revise three hours every night five nights a week plus fours on a Sunday from January. I pestered the school until they put him in for all the higher papers except French. They have until February to change this. He got a 7, six 6s and a 5. He is at college doing A -levels despite not doing much for Yrs 9 and 10. He is not exceptionally bright. It can be done but she must apply herself from now on. tutors would help. Tassomai helped him loads with science.

At the TV company I used to work at they employed Social Media Marketing apprentices, Research apprentices and Video on Demand Scheduling apprentices. They were treated like full time employees and gained invaluable experience. Some got employed at the same company afterwards and others went on to get good jobs in other TV companies. You might be too far from a big city to find opportunities like these (?) but I thought they were a better route in to TV than a Media Studies degree by far. Hope you get things sorted anyway.

Op I left school with 4 c's at GCSE. I went on to gain a-levels via part time college and now have 2 degrees (both gained as a mature student).

I'm not currently working due to ill health, but I was a nurse for several years and then worked in the civil service/managerial office roles, mainly accounting depts for several years which is what my last job was. When I did my last degree I was planning to retrain into a different profession than nursing, I had a place to do the post-graduate qualification, but unfortunately had a serious car accident which put paid to that for the time being. I'm working on improving things health wise and hope - even at the grand old age of 46 - in the next couple years to find a way to get back to work, that may even include further study.

My dd now 17, also struggled at end of school (new head majorly fucked things up for many!) she's now doing an apprenticeship for a large well known company earning what I consider bloody good money and I don't just mean for her age!

School careers people are generally crap. Find out if there's a locally run careers service in your nearest town. They're usually much better for knowing what's available locally and what's realistic too. If she has a rough idea of the field she wants to go into they can be great at knowing of jobs/careers that aren't well known but are suitable for the client. Eg I've known people thinking they want to go into

nursing - became a phlebotomist & lab tech
Teaching - became a SALT
lawyer - became a mediator

They all thoroughly enjoy their careers and are well suited to them.

There's lots of options - college (which can include training not just academic courses), apprenticeships (which include degree apprenticeships which is something my dd looking at), work, travel and work overseas...

I've also got friends and relatives who hated school, weren't considered particularly academic and who are now working in jobs many would consider almost professions! Some have even entered professions via alternate routes.

Personally I think pre-16 education is FAR too skewed towards academia now. Not only a disservice to the pupils but to the country!

We NEED mechanics, electricians, plumbers, care assistants, gas engineers, hairdressers, massage therapists, child carers... Yet this type of work isn't encouraged or valued!

"but can start a year or three later." Even 5,10 or 15 - it's never too late!

And uni isn't the be all and end all either.

"colleges are often better with later bloomers than schools" so true! Mine was excellent. They "got" that many of the students there to retake GCSEs that are a basic requirement for most jobs haven't had a great experience at school, probably think they "can't" do the subject and this causes anxiety and brain freeze! Personally I found my college tutors FAR better teachers than the ones at school! Calmer, more experienced and more thorough knowledge of the subjects.

My brother is in the police now, didn't do great at school, so became a pcso initially, while also doing some evening classes. He's now an inspector in a specialist area of police work.

Meant kindly op - your assessment of her not being mature enough for work/apprenticeships may not necessarily be accurate. As her parent you have a certain image of her in your head, plus particularly in teen years how she is at home isn't necessarily how she is outside the home.

Does she not have a Saturday job? It could well be a good idea, a change of scenery from school, bring her into contact with adults a wee bit older than her that will discuss in a non-lecturing way their experiences of school and work, help her mature a bit and maybe start to figure out the type of work she does (and doesn't) enjoy.

Sounds like there's partly a disciplinary issue too - another thing work soon sorts! Not as easy going as school!

Eg I was surprised to learn via Saturday jobs that I quite like clearly organised, dexterous tasks, when I had thought I wasn't practically inclined at all. I learned, once I built up some confidence that I quite like customer facing roles (mum pushed me into waitressing which as quite a shy teen I dreaded but actually did me the world of good on that score!), as I went on I actually became quite good at dealing with complaints (that then came in very handy when nursing - calming down scared/angry/frustrated patients).

I've a friend who basically completely flunked school (I suspect she's undx dyslexic), she started off with a Saturday job at a clothes chain store, as they already knew her they were happy to take her on full time when she finished school. She worked her way up and is now regional person (I don't think she's called a manager?) in charge of ensuring the visual displays and window dressings are done properly and feeds back to hq on if they're inc/decreasing sales, customer feedback etc. She's far more artistic than academic and this suits her perfectly.

Going outside our comfort zone helps build confidence - finding you CAN do something you feared you'd be crap at can be REALLY empowering.

Does she do extra-curricular activities? If so what?

I've just googled Essex apprenticeships - there's loads? Admin, retail, recruitment, opticians, trades (no reason as a girl she couldn't do these!), mechanics, fabrication, insurance underwriter (there's a job that'll always be needed!), BT engineering (I know someone does this it's bloody good money! With prospects for advancement), pharmacy assistants...

The gov website for this (and many other things!) is shit! It's not where most employers advertise.

If it's retail she's interested in then companies own sites are the best place to look, even contact them directly.

They also prefer youngsters who've proven their interest by having Saturday/holiday jobs with them. Retail is actually area you can definitely work your way up! My mum has no formal qualifications, she started off shelf stacking, retired a few years ago having worked her way up - and not all through same company either - to security/customer service management. And that was even with being a trailing spouse!

I had no idea re modern apprenticeships either, have learnt a lot since dd started hers, eg I'd no idea there were degree level apprenticeships - basically they get paid while getting their degree! How good is that? Dds qualification she now has after finishing her 1st year is equivalent to 2 highers. This level she's on now I think is equivalent to doing an access course for uni. If she decides to stay with these employers she can then do the degree level apprenticeship. They even provide a bursary for books etc I think.

You've a "connexions" in Essex I've heard good things about them.

I left school with four GCSEs

I entered on an apprenticeship programme because my mum and dad were wailing at me on a daily basis and I wanted to shut them up

I now earn £35,000 working for the government as a civil engineer

In NI so wages are lower than rest of UK but it's well above our average here

I'm 28. I own my house, drive an Audi and holiday 3 times a year

I still have those four GCSEs..

You don't need experience for BTEC Business Studies, it's literally taught from the ground up and a good subject too, whatever people say about it, in my college a lot of the business teachers (there were a lot) did BTEC Business Studies, and lots of them worked in high levels of business before they became teachers.
Don't write your daughter off just yet, I was getting Es in maths 2 weeks before my exam and I came out with a B, then 2 years later was top of my year for A-Level Economics.
You say you want her to have better opportunities than you, and I fully sympathise with that, but 16 is very young and GCSEs are not the be all end all of education.

Does she actually like school? My son hated it. It just wasn’t the right setting for him to thrive.
Now he’s left and is at college, doing something he sees as useful and purposeful, away from what he saw as ridiculous rules about uniform, haircuts, irrelevant subjects etc, he has blossomed.
It may be that your DD matured in a different setting too.

We have apprentices in social/digital media - there are some interesting things out there.

No Saturday job. I’ve tried that avenue too for the maturity reasons. So she has no work experience at all, and I just don’t think she feel ready for that step. I had her volunteering for a year last year
She knows she must get a part time job but as she’s struggling with school work I haven’t pressured too much

Just encourage her as much as you can, she will find out the reality. She is still so young and has lots of opportunities open to her.