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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to stop shopping at M and S for selling hijabs for young girls

623 replies

worstmotherintheworld · 11/10/2018 20:54

So M and S have started to sell hijabs as part of their school uniform range...aimed at primary school children. One reviewer helpfully suggests getting the small one for a 4 year old.

I have been shopping at Marks all my adult life and have remained a faithful customer despite some dodgy clothes of late and the uninspirational Sparks card, but I think this is going to be the last straw for me.

OP posts:
SpankTheMonkey · 13/10/2018 14:31

Are you as judgemental about what white women wear and how they do their make-up? - Derailing - it is not about White women - and you are trying to set up a racist debate

Although if you must ask, the last time I saw a white person with such extreme make up, was at a drag show

dawnmist · 13/10/2018 14:43

Are you as judgemental about what white women wear and how they do their make-up?
It isn’t t about judging anyone’s makeup, it’s the inconsistency and the contradiction between the two extremes. Please stop pulling the tiresome race card, it means things can’t be discussed.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/10/2018 15:29

I wouldn’t agree about the makeup

Muslim and it’s probably Arab women you have seen with heavy eye makeup. Kohl was used to protect the eyes and is still often applied to babies in the ME and Asia

Also Muslim/Arab women are not sexless far from it. Islam does not carry the hang ups about sex that Christianity does (Virgin Mary, Jesus being asexual). Sex is very much celebrated and accepted and both men and women it is something that should be enjoyed (within marriage) the flip side is that women are often judged as being temptresses and men can’t not help themselves but that is in nearly all religions and cultures

Valanice1989 · 13/10/2018 15:36

Christmas is coming how many of you know the true meaning of what Christmas is about? how many of you will actually go to church take your children, grandchildren or will you be hung over and have the attitude of not going.

Christmas is a pagan holiday (Yule) that was stolen by Christians. There's absolutely nothing in the Bible that says Jesus was born on 25 December - in fact, it's unlikely that shepherds would be out watching their flocks at night in the middle of winter.

MadMum101 · 13/10/2018 15:36

I'm extremely judgemental of the white woman at my DCs primary school who wears an abaya together with the style of hijab as shown on the M&S website, and whose DD's wear a similar hijab to school. I want to ask her why she is perpetrating the extremely dangerous belief that men cannot be expected to control their sexual urges.

There are plenty of white converts to Islam in Western countries. Muslims are not a race of people so let's not bother with the racist bullshit.

dawnmist · 13/10/2018 15:37

If Islam has no hang ups about sex, why then the need for young girls wearing veils, thereby sexualising them from a very young age?

Antigon · 13/10/2018 15:38

Why shouldn't women who wear hijab use make-up to express themselves?

You'd be up in arms if a Muslim cleric said white girls' skirts are too short, but it's fair game for you to say hijabis wear too much make-up? Stop policing Muslim women's bodies! The hypocrisy on this thread is amazing.

Some people really need to ponder why they're so jealous of Muslim women who express their beliefs and personality.

it is not about White women - and you are trying to set up a racist debate

Why isn't it about white women too? Why are white women above reproach?

InfiniteSheldon · 13/10/2018 15:39

I agree OP no place for the hijab or burka in a civilised country of equals

Antigon · 13/10/2018 15:41

Just because a tiny minority of Muslims are white does not mean people don't use Islamophobia as a proxy for racism.

Growingboys · 13/10/2018 15:41

I agree OP. Women should not have to cover their hair, legitimising the fallacy that men can't control their sexual urges.

Goingonandonandon · 13/10/2018 15:41

Ah ahah Islam has no hang ups about sex. That statement is an absolute joke.

I used to work in a sexual health clinic in East London. It wasn’t just hang ups, it was ignorance. I now work in a secondary school and the number of young Muslim girls who have received no support or information about their own bodies is unbelieavable.

Antigon · 13/10/2018 15:42

I'm extremely judgemental of the white woman at my DCs primary school who wears an abaya together with the style of hijab as shown on the M&S website, and whose DD's wear a similar hijab to school. I want to ask her why she is perpetrating the extremely dangerous belief that men cannot be expected to control their sexual urges.

Please leave the poor woman alone. She deals with ignorance like yours every day most likely.

MadMum101 · 13/10/2018 15:46

OK Antigon. Please educate me so I don't remain ignorant. Why do Muslim women believe covering their hair makes them closer to God?

Antigon · 13/10/2018 15:50

Why does it matter why they believe what they do, MadMum? Why do people in God? Why do people believe there is no God? Why do Hindus believe in re-incarnation? In karma?

The point is that they believe, and it's wrong and arrogant for people to say they're wrong in what they believe.

MrsSkarsgard · 13/10/2018 15:59

As a Muslim apostate here, this behaviour of children wearing head coverings should absolutely not be encouraged. There is no role for children to dress modestly and all the arguments that say transition is easier or this is an insignificant issue are absolute baloney.

I will never get involved in telling women what to wear but I will absolutely stick up for kids and making it socially acceptable is not the done thing in the UK and many other Muslim countries. I think this is a backwards move for M+S.

MadMum101 · 13/10/2018 16:01

Well you insulted me Antigon by asserting that I was ignorant in my understanding of the reason why the hijab is worn. I took that you meant I was wrong so I asked you to educate me!

Talk about skirting round the issueHmm. I wonder why

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/10/2018 16:16

I said that Islam doesn’t carry the hang up about sex that Christianity often does (you are not seen as being closer to god because you have taken a vow and never married and stayed clean by not having sex or sexual thoughts)

That some cultural backgrounds do not teach girls about their bodies (which was quite the norm in the uk until quite recently) is not the point I was making

It was in response to women who wear a hijab also wearing heavy eye make up these women are not sexless. Women who wear a hijab can still be fashionable and sexual

Antigon · 13/10/2018 16:17

Well if you call yourself 'extremely judgemental' then you rather open yourself up to being called ignorant.

Why not befriend this women rather than come at her from a place of judgement and confrontation?

No skirting, I'm just willing to believe Muslim women who wear the hijab for their reasons for wearing the hijab, whatever they may be. Some say they wear it to be closer to God, some say it frees them from having to worry about their appearance.

I also see Sikh women now wearing the turban, but people are very quick to believe that they wear it out of their own choice, with no family coercion.

Valanice1989 · 13/10/2018 16:49

I will never get involved in telling women what to wear but I will absolutely stick up for kids and making it socially acceptable is not the done thing in the UK and many other Muslim countries. I think this is a backwards move for M+S.

This.

FekkoTheLawyer · 13/10/2018 17:01

M&s used to have anti isralwdemos outside (Oxford St) not all that long ago. Maybe they are trying to shift away from this?

dawnacorns · 13/10/2018 17:01

I think that's the main issue isn't it here - will kids at 4/5/6 be doing this from entirely free will or will even some be co-erced or pressured into it in reality. It's a different issue from adults choosing it. M&S are facilitating that effectively and normalising it.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/10/2018 17:02

M&S are totally wrong for selling a religious item of clothing dressed up as school uniform. They should be neutural and stay out of it. I am sure Muslim parents know many places where they can get a hijab without going to M&S. M&S are hopping on the PC bandwagon.

dawnmist · 13/10/2018 17:18

You'd be up in arms if a Muslim cleric said white girls' skirts are too short

I’d be up in arms at a man dictating what any woman wore, regardless of religion, wouldn’t you be.

Some people really need to ponder why they're so jealous of Muslim women who express their beliefs and personality.
How does wearing a veil express beliefs and personality, what beliefs, and how does a veil express personality? Genuine question, i’d really love to know.

SlothCloth · 13/10/2018 17:20

Why do bigots love the term ‘card’ and ‘bandwagon’?

Aeroflotgirl · 13/10/2018 17:23

Very lazy Sloth, M&S have no business selling a hjjab as part of a school uniform when it is not, it is a religious item of clothing.