to stop shopping at M and S for selling hijabs for young girls

[worstmotherintheworld]

So M and S have started to sell hijabs as part of their school uniform range...aimed at primary school children. One reviewer helpfully suggests getting the small one for a 4 year old.

I have been shopping at Marks all my adult life and have remained a faithful customer despite some dodgy clothes of late and the uninspirational Sparks card, but I think this is going to be the last straw for me.

Can any of you answer the repeated question on this thread: why did we rarely see headcarves on young girls 25 years ago and NEVER on little kids?

It's pretty obvious, I would have thought? The UK as a whole is more tolerant of freedom of religious expression now. Not that you'd know from this thread.

Don't be sorry, RocksOff, just be willing to listen to the flip side too.

Hijabs for little girls is simply wrong.
Rules that encourage the idea that a four year old girl must cover her head and a four year old boy need not are the perfect example of how we are grooming a generation of girls from a tiny age to accept that they must be treated as subject to different rules their entire lives. Because they are the wrong sex.

Hijabs have no place in any school uniform.

Havaina, I’m more than happy to listen to the flip side and I mean that sincerely. It’s difficult though when you read such awful stories.

I think the burning question is what is the purpose of the hijab? Is it to stop men lusting after women because they can see their hair? Genuine question, because that's the only explanation I've ever seen given for it. IF that is the case, then 4 year olds should definitely not be wearing it because it's assuming men will be lusting after them, surely? It sexualises young children and implies all men are paedophiles. That's wrong on so many levels. I'd assume that was as insulting to a Muslim man as any other man.

It’s not racist to be appalled by children being compelled to wear head coverings, any more than its anti-British to be appalled by crop tops, etc being marketed at children.

I can’t bear this attitude that we should be “tolerant” - even when something is blatantly wrong and flies in the face of common sense.

Shame on you M&S for perpetrating this poison. And, by the same token, shame on any retail outlet that pushes blatantly skimpy clothing for young girls.

All the “live and let live” types should actually go and spend time in a country where the hijab, or more extreme forms of covering, are mandatory. See how liberal towards it you feel on your return.

There is no place for any of this in 2018 and retailers need to get a grip and take responsibility for the trash they are pedalling. We should all have evolved past such nonsense by now and be able to see it for what it is.

IF that is the case, then 4 year olds should definitely not be wearing it because it's assuming men will be lusting after them, surely? It sexualises young children and implies all men are paedophiles

Are you aware that kids as young as 6 are being raped in schools.

That 37 percent of schools girls report harassment in their uniforms.

That over a third are in schools with tker attackers

Maybe this is partly why people are objecting ? Because it's a visual reminder that these aren't the odd creepy guy in an ally somewhere. But that it's wide spread and these are your brothers sons and husbands?

Comparing hijabs and hair to bras and breasts is ridiculous. I don't know many women or teenagers or pubescent girls who take off their bra when they get home and walk around topless. Although I am sure some might!

Not that the clothes or wearing a hijab makes the blindest but of difference to people. But people don't like to he reminded do they.

Do people honestly think families who wish their child in primary to wear a hijab will just shrug and say "oh well she can go without? Do you think if we don't see it it's not going on?
I think this is such a dangerous attitude. You can’t create a two tier system where one group of women and girls are entitled to more rights than the others because of cultural sensitivities.
It’s this kind of nonsense that allowed FGM to go unchecked for so long, allows brutal murder to be ‘honour’ killings and let the Rochdale scandal play out.
It’s an insult to the many moderate Muslims to ignore and normalise extremist behaviour.

But where have I said I agree with any of it?

What I do disagree with is placing nore barriers in front of girls to access schooling.

Until things change on a societal level we have to do more than police clothing.

@Gileswithachainsaw, no I genuinely wasn't aware that children as young as 6 are being raped in schools. That made my blood run cold. By other children or by adults? Disgusting either way.
BUT surely if that's the case we need to be educating our sons, brothers and husbands that women and girls can wear what they bloody well like and have no right to be touched by men or boys because of It? Not that women should cover up so as not to arouse them?

'Its not about men looking at them, it''s about being old enough to understand the importance of modesty in God's eyes' - what does this even mean? So god is a man?

And yes that's pretty much what I'm saying.

But that's not happening here is it. We are policing head wear. The only people this will hurt is women and girls . We need to go deeper first.

“It's pretty obvious, I would have thought? The UK as a whole is more tolerant of freedom of religious expression now.”

No, I actually think there has been an intensification of Islamic practice. Bangladeshi schoolgirls in E London used to drape the scarf that goes with a brightly coloured shalwar kameez over their heads. Now many are in full Islamic plain colour dress rather than sari or salwar kameez. ‘Proper’ hijab close fitting rather than the scarf.

It is well documented that Saudi Arabia has funded mosques and changed the isamic discipline many people adhere to, and there was also a Muslim backlash in response to the anti-Muslim feeling that rise after 9/11. I know many women who adopted the hijab for the first time during that period, to asset their identity as proud Muslim women. (Professional free thinking women).

It used to be plain old racism in Tower Hamlets, now it is anti-Islam. But at the same time I think it true that Islamicist (as opposed to Muslim) influence has grown in a way that is not good for society as a whole, and girls in particular.

Our challenge as a tolerant society (and we cannot be a meaningful democracy without tolerance) is that we manage ourselves without repressive laws.

I don’t want to see children in hijabs or heels. If I ran a shop I would stock neither. But beyond keeping them warm and healthy I don’t want to live in a society that dictates what anyone wears or doesn’t wear by law.

That’s for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc.

At my dcs primary school (Jewish) the boys wear head coverings as part of the school uniform and the girls don’t. I would Be pleased if M&S sold the kippahs and I would think it’s pretty racist if someone objected to that.

So I think it’s the same for hijabs. Of course we shouldn’t sexualise. Children. But hijabs are worn for worship. They are worn as part of a school uniform. Whether they are worn or not has nothing to do with M&S.

I don't know any schools that have a bikini and high heels as part of the uniform for little girls .

havaina up you pop again. No this thread isn’t vile, i said some of the of the anti Christian threads have been vile. What in earth is vile about people stating their feelings about young girls wearing the veil. I was brought up Catholic but i’d be equally prolific if young catholic girls were being encouraged to wear veils to school. What on earth do you find vile? Don’t you think certain aspects of religions should be questioned? I question all religions, perhaps you should too, instead of trying to shut down decent discussions with your determination to call “racism” when it isn’t there.

@zsazsajuju - but what is the purpose of the kippahs? Is it to cover boys heads so that girls or women don't see their hair and get aroused? To keep them 'modest'? If not, it's not a fair comparison.

Can any of you answer the repeated question on this thread: why did we rarely see headcarves on young girls 25 years ago and NEVER on little kids?

The influence of political Islam pushed by the Saudis/Wahhabis (who the West need to keep sweet as they have oil).

I'm pretty sure the kippah isn't used to stop women lusting after their adornments

I'm just pissed off they don't have any maternity wear except underwear and pajamas anymore. Surely if they're trying to cater to everyone they should sell maternity clothes. Seems like they are going for lots of niche customers but ignoring a big chunk of their target market.

To the question "do you even know any Muslims?" yes I do, as friends and extended family. But they are the wrong kind, sorry. They're extremely dismayed at their parents' countries of origin backsliding into fundamentalism and the effects this has on women's rights, free speech and democracy. They're also dismayed to see the Gulf States- funded rise in fundamentalism among second and third generation Muslims in western Europe. They are vocal about this in their daily lives. But the Guardian won't give them column space, preferring only the voices of outraged identity politics and protestations of how empowering the hijab is.

I don't care what adult women wear on their heads but I'm not going to pretend I don't see the patriarchal values that inform the now-regular sight of blokes strolling round in shorts and t-shirts with their wives following behind, swathed in dark robes in the middle of a heatwave. And little girls too. I don't know how anyone can think this is okay.

Yes, a poster who insists that Muslim women are required to pluck (yes, PLUCK) every single hair on her body can't possibly be racist . Even when corrected that this is not true, she ignores the correction but carries on posting. How long would it take to pluck every single hair?

What is this spreading of disinformation, if not racist?

You can pretend I said that disagreement with wearing the hijab is racist, but that's not what I said.

And no one has yet responded to my question as to why Muslim women who don't wear the hijab, always wear it when praying, even if they're alone in their bedroom on in their house. I suspect the answer doesn't fit your narrative. But the fact is, most Muslim do wear the hijab to be closer to God, not to deter rapists or whatever else puerile shit people are coming up with here.

The influence of political Islam pushed by the Saudis/Wahhabis (who the West need to keep sweet as they have oil).
Shocking but true.