Utter snobbery

[ScattyPenny]

This may be old news and I apologise if it's been done to death already. I know it's not a new thing.

My friend has a daughter who has just started at a prestigious Russell group uni. My son is at a regular uni.

My friend showed me pictures of her daughter wearing a T-Shirt on a night out bearing the slogan 'Your Dad works for my Dad'. It was for a student night out in which students from the local 'poly' and the 'proper' university were attending. Obviously it was an antagonistic slur on those attending the 'lower rated' university.

I'm from a working class background and struggled to get to university and I'm very proud of my achievements and of my son having got to where he is. I was the first in my family ever to get a degree and I went to a new university (old poly). I went to a state school and my parents worked hard but never in well-paid jobs.

AIBU to think that this smacks of class snobbery?

Many kids at decent universities will have got there through hard work and determination but many will have had the benefits of private education, middle class values and educated (and supportive) parents.

Personally I think it stinks. My friend however thought it was funny.

Sad as it sounds, the slogan probably rings true for many of the students. However, it must seem like a kick in the face in an 'I've got somewhere you'll get because you're poor' kind of way.

Sorry...just needed to vent.

“We had them at my city and both unis had slogans for each other. “What’s that over the hill? It’s unemployment”, and the line in your OP being the most popular from the RG unis. The Poly uni also fights back with slogans of how they excel at sports and are prettier etc.“

The Poly fights back with football and being prettier? I can see the RGs weeping into their cornflakes over that .

Yeah it’s pathetic. Snobbish, and a little bit sexist.

I went to a Russell group uni where I was a working class strongly accented gob shite who made friends with loads of posh public school kids. We had banter but I wouldn't have liked those t shirts. One lad used to say things like 'they have schools where you're from?' but it was silliness and not nasty. There was a definite divide of not being able to relate to certain aspects of each others lived though, like being on your actual last tenner when they had a flat actually bought for them to live in. The poly uni used to chant 'I'd rather be a poly than a cunt' and we would chant 'if you can't go to Uni go to Met' (ie. The metropolitan), but cringe now really looking back!

My very privileged (but state school educated) son got into a RG university through clearing.
When he came home with one of these t-shirts (slogan Ex-Poly - disappointing parents since 1969) I told him in no uncertain terms what I thought. It’s not just banter - it’s the continuation of an insidious and pervasive attitude in which those with every advantage mistakenly believe they are where they are through merit.
The irony is that most of the ex-Poly students probably had better grades than my son.

Everyone of us here went to Uni in our family. DH and I went later in life. I didn't actually know what an RG uni was still I joined mumsnet.😁. None of us have Uni snobbery, although the first Uni I was at as well as DD2 and DH were ex poly's, back in the day.
DD3 is at an RG uni, mainly because it's the only one that does the course she wants. I don't doubt that there are privately educated middle class kids there ( they are more likely sadly to get into medicine, vet school and dentistry), but not on her course. She had to do extra credits to get in, so got there with hard work, and definitely wouldn't wear one of those tee-shirts. In fact she would probably challenge anyone who did.

I would be extremely disappointed if one my children ever wore a t-shirt like that .I am from a working class family. My DS went to a regular uni and graduated .He was the first of our family to go to uni and we are incredibly proud of him .Your friend and I would use the term friend loosely is a snob. Her daughter may well be used to getting everything on a plate and take it for granted . Your son sounds like he has been well brought up as you sound like a very well grounded person OP. It may suppose be banter but me personally I disagree but each to their own.

When I say we all went to Uni, it's because DH changed career and I had to for my work and was given time off to study. Not cause we give a ff if people go to Uni or not.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/outrage-tory-uni-society-picture-13350145

this link shows what some students think of the NHS ….. sad

This sums it up.....
"and more "it's just a joke" "it's self mockery" I say again these arguments would not be acceptable if the t-shirt slogans were regarding other prejudices, WHY Is it still considered acceptable to mock the poor? The less privileged? Simple answer - it's not! Not in jest, not when fuelled by intoxication, not in such a public way and I'm most disappointed that the unis being publicly represented in such a way think it AT ALL acceptable. "

I applied for several local universities when I was doing my A levels (I was a carer and needed to stay close to home). I went to the local Ex-Polytechnic. Many of my friends went to that 'better' local Russel Group Uni. I graduated with a 1st class degree and have been solidly employed for several years by that same local Russel Group Uni, whereas my friends have never found jobs that use their degrees and found work they could have got with their GCSE's or A Levels. I chose the local Ex-Poly because they had the more challenging degree programme that was more applicable to the world of work and had strong links to business and offered work placements. Many Russel Group universites do coast along on their reputation.

...and I do think it's very much snobbery by the way.

Total snobbery my response would be to get your son a tshirt saying "I worked to get to where I am, no silver spoons needed"

I think that is disgusting and pathetic

“My dad f&@ks your mum while your dads at work’

The middle class are an utter embarrassment ( I'm middle class and I'm embarrassed.)

I'm from a middle class background and I find this very distasteful. Our society needs to grow up and leave this tired and very unhelpful attitude behind.

Sadly, it is still around and I was told just last week by an elderly lady that she doubted my colleague(I'm an IFA but work with a solicitor) was "a real solicitor" as he went to the local comprehensive. The comment was made with much disdain- she almost spat it out. I was shocked. She then started a rant about private education and how her husband didn't just join the Bank of England he "became a MEMBER"!

I made a point of dropping into the conversation that my DH was privately educated and I went to a grammar but neither of us had found someone's educational history to be a reliable indicator of their professional capability or basic human decency.

I'm disappointed to learn it's not just some of the older generation perpetuating this sort of crap..

Brilliant discussion. So many posts! Loads of interesting comments and stories on this from people of all walks of life. It clearly hit a nerve with others so I'm not feeling so oversensitive anymore. Thanks for the support. I know it's very 'first world' but I also think that alongside the British preoccupation with social class comes an inherent sensitivity towards it.

To answer the question about what my friend does for a living, she works freelance for agencies usually in finance or publishing. I hope she doesn't see this! I'm meeting her for coffee this week so I think I will bring this up without embarrassing her. I'm sure we can move on from it.

So much snobbery out there! Elitism is alive and well it seems.

But it's reassuring that the vast majority of mumsnetters don't have opinions that reflect this. Maybe it is a maturity thing. Students are just big kids at the end of the day. I'm sure my son has some controversial views about life that he doesn't tell me about. I'm also sure that I had some strange ideas at that age too!

I went to a top uni and, sadly, many who went to colleges/polytechnics or didn't enter FE far outearn me. 😳😠😜

I went to (and now work at) a Poly and the city’s “University of” favourite phrase about us was “What do you need to get into xxx uni? Two Es and an STD”
It was always gleeful chanting “I’d rather be a poly than a cunt” at varsity but I can’t say it was any better.
I do think the snobbery / “bants” (ew) wears off after freshers.

" I assume these girls don’t want to get a job, going to marry a man for their success?? Where is the “your mother works for my mother” t-shirt?"

And im willing to bet that you see yourself as a feminist @Cardiganqueen71

This is why some working class women feel alienated from feminism Because of attitudes like this.

Working class women who clean for and care for the children of wealthier families seem to be treated with scorn and derision on here Especially when it comes to threads about in work benefits.

Yet the wealthier families arent falling over themselves to pay more for childcare so their childminder doesnt have to claim UC.

Inverted snobbery my arse Try reading any of the social housing threads.

@Graphista i agree with everything you have posted.

Yes, this disgusting snobbery that pervades UK society is deeply unpleasant. One of the reasons I left to be honest. I'm originally working class and went on to get a BSc and PhD from RG institutions. I'm an expat now (Switzerland) and have no intention of returning.

Interesting that you describe your friend as a Guardian-reading liberal, OP. Fucking champagne socialists despite the white working class and can't stand it when we get 'above our station'. I'd drop her.

*despise, not despite

Thanks Helena - not just social housing threads but the many benefits bashing threads too! The attitudes of some posters to anyone who DARES to claim benefits is absolutely shocking! - and they usually post under name changes (which they don't always admit) too!

I think I may have to hide this thread. It's heartbreaking.
I am one of those ppl who was brought up comfortably then things went wrong then they got better again. I just loved my friends.
Life is an education. Don't ever underestimate anyone

I am a Guardian Reading middle class parent and I would be totally ashamed if one of my kids wore a T shirt like that.

And it’s not just the vile snobbery. It’s the banal selfie-driven peer pressured mindless banality of ‘oooh, let’s all wear an edgy t shirt”. Universities seem infested by young people who have no clue. It’s not the generation who spent their Uni years supporting Rock Agsindt Racism or The Anti Nazi League.