Utter snobbery

[ScattyPenny]

This may be old news and I apologise if it's been done to death already. I know it's not a new thing.

My friend has a daughter who has just started at a prestigious Russell group uni. My son is at a regular uni.

My friend showed me pictures of her daughter wearing a T-Shirt on a night out bearing the slogan 'Your Dad works for my Dad'. It was for a student night out in which students from the local 'poly' and the 'proper' university were attending. Obviously it was an antagonistic slur on those attending the 'lower rated' university.

I'm from a working class background and struggled to get to university and I'm very proud of my achievements and of my son having got to where he is. I was the first in my family ever to get a degree and I went to a new university (old poly). I went to a state school and my parents worked hard but never in well-paid jobs.

AIBU to think that this smacks of class snobbery?

Many kids at decent universities will have got there through hard work and determination but many will have had the benefits of private education, middle class values and educated (and supportive) parents.

Personally I think it stinks. My friend however thought it was funny.

Sad as it sounds, the slogan probably rings true for many of the students. However, it must seem like a kick in the face in an 'I've got somewhere you'll get because you're poor' kind of way.

Sorry...just needed to vent.

Bleurgh - that is pretty grim. I would not have been showing photos of my child wearing such a crass t-shirt. My children all go to state school because it's a good school and it is free, but our eldest especially is constantly being ribbed for being posh. His rugby team played against a local public school and were taunted throughout by very opposing sentiments. Aparrently their kit came from poundland (if only!!). The final straw was when these vile creatures took to being beaten by over 30 points as a personal affront and told our boys to fuck off back to their council estate and then started a fight with them!
I had considered the school as an option for ds (as a scholarship) until this point.
The snobbery in this country is pretty flipping dreadful to be honest, from both sides. Having endured years of being called the "token toff" when I moved from a convent to state school, it is clear that its nothing new and probably won't change any time soon. Too many chips on too many shoulders!

Op has gone I think but I'd advise not to take offence.

Pity is more appropriate given you and your kid(s) seem to be doing fine in life. It's either tongue in cheek or bombastic idiocy possibly masking insecurity. If you wonder at / pity these types it goes against any preconceptions of you they may have. As you see on this thread complaining may be interpreted as "chippiness" and gives the snob more grist to their mill / worldview.

I'd be reassessing the friend though cos I'm very fussy; a lot would depend on past mutual support and kindnesses. If it's a social friend rather than a mutual "rock" type I'd be less available.

I’d take no notice of any of it. My dad was on low income, my mum didn’t work through due to poor health. I went to a rubbish school but ended up in one of the best universities apparently in the world. I did very well. My friends were mostly from public school. Now most of them are house wife’s or have standard jobs. I work full time in a normal job for someone who went to a poly. Most of the people I work for never went to uni but are far better off than me financially, Mainly through shear hard work and risk taking. Uni institutionalises you especially the better ones which is fine if you want a breakdown at 40. Let them wear the T-shirt’s- who cares.

These things backfire when employers look at their social media.
Unless she's trying to get a job with the Tory party, obv.

I haven't gone. I'm still here...reading the posts. It's fascinating hearing other people's insights into this. I wasn't expecting such a big response!

Social class is such a big deal in the UK. It defines us in so many ways. It shapes our ideas of ourselves and our expectations of life. Equality of opportunity is a long way off and I think that small things like the T-shirt are stalling progress. It's like a nasty little reminder to working class kids that even though they've made it to HE, they should be aware of their standing and not forget that they are inferior. It's even a dig to working class kids in RG unis...probably makes them feel like frauds.

It's a smug and self satisfied attitude that serves to perpetuate outdated ideas about ability and social division. Shitty attitude.

I feel I must point out that my friend's daughter is a really nice girl. She is kind and friendly and doesn't normally come across as a snob. I suspect she was doing it to fit in rather than it being a true reflection of her opinions. It's sad that she gave in to this to feel accepted.

My friend is also not bad, she probably saw it as a bit of fun. I suppose it's different when you feel like you're on the receiving end though. She's a Guardian reading, open minded and liberal type normally. She would probably recoil in horror if I showed her this thread!!

Who are these people! My three all attended Unis listed in the group. I had absolutely no idea there was such a list and that people paid so much attention to it. Surely a degree in say Maths is the same at any Uni. Those on the list are more well known for research which is different to a degree. Those who are being "put down" should have You wouldn't here if Your Dad didnt make money from my Dad. Snobs is too good for them.

YANBU that is dreadful. Not funny, crass and disrespectful xx

@racecardriver I’m wealthy and send my son to the local state school because I believe in the state system! Yes it saves me money , but I don’t do it because it saves me money!

And the t shirt is vile and I bloody hope your friend realises she’s being a twat and educates her daughter

I think you're being oversensitive.

I say this as someone who went to a spectacularly bad comprehensive and who had parents who never worked for anyone, never mind someone else's dad. I grew up on dinner tickets- and didn't always have a winter coat. I went to a RG uni (one of only three people in my year at school who went to uni at all) and this kind of thing happened a lot between the local poly and the RG uni.

It's just students mucking around, nothing more. It's tongue in cheek- not snobbery; teenagers being silly. They'll grow up over the next three years and become reasonable human beings, with any luck.

All of you saying you couldn't be friends with this woman because her daughter wore this t shirt and she laughed at it? Come on... you need to lighten up.

Also, the inverse snobbery on here is horrific. This whole "handed to you on a plate" thing is a load of rubbish. I can tell you this- almost everyone who was at uni with me had worked harder to get there than I had and I was by far the poorest person I knew. Because the schools they went to had high expectations of them and made them work bloomin' hard to keep the grades up for their league tables. My school didn't care what you got and I did very little work- I was lucky enough to reasonableish grades and get in. Nearly everyone there had better grades than me.

I can't believe some of the comments on here about middle class kids though. It's just as bad to treat children that come from middle class families as if nothing they do is worthwhile as it is to treat those of us from working class families as if we can never achieve anything. All kinds of class snobbery are nasty and that includes inverse snobbery.

It really is crass and offensive. But in the world of work after Uni, not many employers put a premium on which Uni candidates went to. Some do, I know, but most don't.

I regularly take part in recruitment to the Civil Service up to SEO. We do not give a monkeys as to what Uni someone went to. Of the hundreds of applications I've looked at over the years I have never considered it. We are only interested in, and only score, whether the candidate has the qualification we are asking for, if we are, and the quality of their application and examples.

So somebody with a first from a Russell Group could quite easily get sifted out and somebody from an old Poly/new Uni get an interview because their application is better and addresses the job description and competency requirements much more effectively.

My DS went to an old Poly/new Uni and got a Desmond. I'm bloody proud of him!! He worked incredibly hard.

We all have different ideas of fun that's for sure!

If she's nice then yes likely she's doing it to fit in. That is a bit sad but not unusual. But it really then is nothing for you to be upset at personally.

Unless the friend by laughing means it as a slight dig at your family? (I have a close family member who might just err into this type of thing re university courses but it comes from a place of struggling themselves and wanting the very "best" as they consider it for the next generation. They come into my category of "rock like person" and do I forgive them their foible as I hope they forgive mine.)

Wow. Not even ‘your mum works for my mum’ ?
Silly, arrogant and crass.
I wouldn’t employ her - the students she is insulting would make a much better choice of employee.

I think that’s quite nasty, I don’t understand why anyone would think it funny, whatever your background is. If I saw my child sporting that I would be ashamed to think that she thought about other people in those terms. And saying ‘oh it’s just a joke’ doesn’t make it funny, not with race jokes, not with sexist jokes and not with this.

This made me laugh out loud. 😂😂😂

Taffeta’s comment made me laugh out loud.... not the t-shirt. I’d max that credit card out until it’s smoking lol!

user1489679054
Well said.

I think you are being over sensitive too. The posh v poly parties are usually full of banter from both sides. I wouldn't drop a good friend over what their kids do. Your ds is almost certainly not perfect,!!

There were photos doing the rounds last week of a bunch of freshers wearing shirts with charming slogans such as "Fuck the NHS" on them, (I think they may have been Young Conservatives!)

They were the Yong Conservatives at the Uni. One donned a Hitler moustache.

Sorry I still don't find it remotely funny. Especially when I've spent the day going through the transcripts of interviews where I was asking young people from low socioeconomic backgrounds why they didn't apply to study at a high ranked university despite meeting or exceeding the entry requirements........

I won't fit in
People like me don't go to places like that
People will look down on me
I'll be bullied for being poor

These are all direct quotes. It's a disgusting thing to do. If a child of mine wore a t shirt like this I'd be so ashamed.

No its not funny. But when your dcs leave home they often do things which are stupid and embarrassing. It's really not up to parents to police their lives and judge them.

I went to a RG university and yes there was some overall snobbery from some regarding the local poly Uni down the road. I was an adult when I went so I didn’t really partake in the shenanigans outside of Uni, but I am sure the banter went both ways! I worked hard to get to Uni from a working class background so there was no snobbery on my part. I agree the T-shirt was a bit crass, but don’t loose your friend over it!

I was the first in my working class family to get a degree and I took it at a teaching college. I never felt particularly inferior but thought I would give my own children the best education I could. One went to a Russell Group university and one to a reputable one not in the Group. They are both clever, hardworking, well read and well informed and have good manners and a social conscience. I am very pleased with and proud of how they have both turned out.

I would be very ashamed if they had the ill mannered, ill bred vulgarity to make anyone else feel socially inferior. I would be extremely upset were I the parents of those rich kids who wear tee shirts belittling others for being poorer than themselves. Apart from the obvious point that the teenagers did not make the money, they were given it, it is the height of bad manners to make another person feel ill at ease or uncomfortable.

All that money and they have raised Yahoos. As for the Instagram kids and the children of foreign oligarchs who have robbed their own people, words fail me.

So the OP need not worry. ‘Manners maketh man.’ Still.

Do people seriously care what university you went to or if you went at all? Can't think I've ever judged any person on that either at work or socially. I'd want people around me at work who could do the job and pull their weight, and would choose pals with shared values and humour.

out of curiosity what does her dad do workwise?

Yet, we go one voting in old Etonians. We cant help ourselves, we always bow before 'posh'.

We want to be egalitarian, but secretly, so many of us apparently believe that 'posh' is better.

It's in our DNA.