And more "it's just a joke" "it's self mockery" I say again these arguments would not be acceptable if the t-shirt slogans were regarding other prejudices, WHY Is it still considered acceptable to mock the poor? The less privileged? Simple answer - it's not! Not in jest, not when fuelled by intoxication, not in such a public way and I'm most disappointed that the unis being publicly represented in such a way think it AT ALL acceptable.
As I said before these are SUPPOSED to be well educated/informed people running these universities, yet they don't see fit to address this poor display of offensive snobbery with the students. That would put me right off sending any child of mine there! Regardless of how supposedly "prestigious" it's meant to be!
"There are a whole raft of cultural, social and structural barriers. Shit like this contributes massively." Exactly!!
"Inverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery but on here, you’re allowed to be an inverse snob it seems" where's the inverse snobbery? I haven't seen any. Criticising this behaviour is not inverse snobbery. As I said before I have good friends from hugely different backgrounds but they're all decent caring people. Nothing class based in being a decent caring person, who doesn't feel the need to have YET ANOTHER GO at those less LUCKY than you, if you happen to come from a privileged background.
"Inverse snobbery isn't just as bad as snobbery (I say this as someone who went to a top university and is fairly middle class) because of the power differential." Agree with this too.
"Where it is more problematic is if there is a broader culture where people feel uncomfortable or that x uni isn’t for them" and what do you think creates that culture if not behaviour like this? It doesn't come out of nowhere!
LakieLady - not saying it can't/doesn't happen but generally it's true that extra tuition is needed. Not sure if the exams is much harder or if it's because the knowledge needed for the exam is not being taught in primary schools. Probably a combination.
And frankly I don't think laughing at the other child's failure is acceptable either. It's falling for the exact kind of divide and rule too many leaders of our society WANT us to be led into doing. Our success comes from supporting each other.
I fundamentally disagree with the essentially at least 3 tier education system we have in this country it's inherently unfair and prejudicial and further disadvantages those already facing many barriers.
The secondary modern I went to had a 6th form.
MartaTam - genuinely don't see the difference in what you said and what I believed that to mean. I also checked. Statistically state school students are less likely to be offered places at RG unis. Their argument is often due to entry requirements but that doesn't take into account that better off, private school educated students have had the advantage not only of a better education at secondary level but also more positive reinforcement and more support at home.
Reality is a student at a state secondary in a deprived area, with working class parents (whether employed or not), in poor housing, possibly also things like not getting a great diet or not being able to sleep well due to a cold house etc is less likely to attain as well as a student at a private school, in a well off area, with minimum mc parents, good quality housing, food etc, all necessary books and equipment provided and practical and moral support from engaged, well educated parents. That's basically what the wee cartoon Posted earlier explained.
I also made clear there are some state schools in very well off areas that are as good, in some cases better, than private schools. Because they're well funded (by well off parents and donators), attract better quality teachers and the students are well supported at home with engaged parents who are able to support the school both morally and financially.
A while back for another thread re MP's backgrounds, I was looking up the schools the current cabinet attended (there's been a reshuffle since) and those that didn't attend private school went to schools that are officially state, but in very wealthy areas that were to all intents and purposes private because of the influence of the wealthy locals including large donations. It's a strange set up.
Op you say your friend and her daughter are "really nice" you're basing that on personal interactions you've had where they will have been conscious of your different background. Actions speak louder than words though.
"This whole "handed to you on a plate" thing is a load of rubbish" completely disagree.
"Because the schools they went to had high expectations of them and made them work bloomin' hard to keep the grades up for their league tables. My school didn't care what you got" and the irony is THIS is exactly what is meant by the outlook you dismiss! THEIR schools encouraged them, expected high grades, yours in your own words "didn't care" that is more than enough of a barrier to many students.
"Nearly everyone there had better grades than me." - again - consider why.
"I regularly take part in recruitment to the Civil Service up to SEO" I've worked in the civil service and several relatives still do. This is a relatively low level you're talking about, middle management. More senior positions, particularly Westminster based, it does start to matter what school and uni you went to. Pretty obvious why it starts to matter at a certain "rank" too.