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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Utter snobbery

262 replies

ScattyPenny · 11/10/2018 17:17

This may be old news and I apologise if it's been done to death already. I know it's not a new thing.

My friend has a daughter who has just started at a prestigious Russell group uni. My son is at a regular uni.

My friend showed me pictures of her daughter wearing a T-Shirt on a night out bearing the slogan 'Your Dad works for my Dad'. It was for a student night out in which students from the local 'poly' and the 'proper' university were attending. Obviously it was an antagonistic slur on those attending the 'lower rated' university.

I'm from a working class background and struggled to get to university and I'm very proud of my achievements and of my son having got to where he is. I was the first in my family ever to get a degree and I went to a new university (old poly). I went to a state school and my parents worked hard but never in well-paid jobs.

AIBU to think that this smacks of class snobbery?

Many kids at decent universities will have got there through hard work and determination but many will have had the benefits of private education, middle class values and educated (and supportive) parents.

Personally I think it stinks. My friend however thought it was funny.

Sad as it sounds, the slogan probably rings true for many of the students. However, it must seem like a kick in the face in an 'I've got somewhere you'll get because you're poor' kind of way.

Sorry...just needed to vent.

OP posts:
araiwa · 12/10/2018 07:36

@blaablaablaa

I have a reasonable understanding

I also have an understanding of irony and tongue in cheek humour

IAmAllAsttonishnent · 12/10/2018 07:38

To insinuate that people’s offensive behaviour shouldn’t incur judgment from other more understanding people is in itself inverse snobbery (they’re judging others for being poor- we’re judging them for that- you’re judging us for judging them) welcome to the circle friend. 👍🏻🙈😂🙌🏻

...please do point out that ‘you’re just observing that’s the case and not therefore being an ‘inverse snob’ yourself’
To fully show your inverse snobbery of others for voicing their personal opinions online...which you wouldn’t do ...obviously xx

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 12/10/2018 07:47

@araiwa well I have an in depth understanding. Social mobility in HE Has stalled and may even be going backwards.
High achieving students from low socioeconomic backgrounds are two thirds less likely to go to high ranked, high tariff institution. They are also most likely to drop out if they do end up at one of these institutions.

A major reason for this is the 'i don't belong' 'it's not for me' mentality. Things like this perpetuate those trends.

I can take a joke as well as the next person but this isn't funny. It's fucking disgusting

Tinkobell · 12/10/2018 07:49

Heart sinking thread this OP. I'm a working class background (dad was a car worker) and I was the second person to go to a uni which was a prestigious Russell group. We've built wealth but it's utterly from scratch. That slogan and the smugness and entitlement behind it makes my blood boil. The assumption of entitlement without ever having had to lift a finger is the pits. I assume that it is tongue in cheek, but that's beside the point.
I have two teenagers now. They've had every support and advantage that I never had. If I saw my kids wearing that, I'd get it off them and burn it! It's a repugnant frame of mind. I hope that picture does find its way onto social media OP. Because if it does, it will have a lasting legacy for your friends daughter which could form part of her profile and Impact her future employment prospects.
A Nottingham a few years back some kids thought it funny to costume as victims of the Alton Towers roller coaster ride .....I'm sure that's probably had a lasting impact on those stupid idiots.

Mooster62 · 12/10/2018 07:50

I didn't go to University. Both my state educated children are at different RG universities - neither of them would wear that Tshirt or think it was funny.

roundaboutthetown · 12/10/2018 07:52

I would just think someone wearing a t-shirt like that was a bit of a twat and move on. You're not exactly up to much yourself if you have to reference Daddy.

Tinkobell · 12/10/2018 07:55

Some students at uni of course don't actually have a "Dad". I wonder if that ever passed through the air-head?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 12/10/2018 08:06

many of the members of the wealthy elite think that it is a good think that poor people are being knocked off through substandard healthcare.

I agree with this.

They regard us as factory fodder, and we are cheaper to replace than to repair. There's plenty more where we came from.

Many wealthy people don't regard poor people as being human beings at all.

user1471426142 · 12/10/2018 08:12

I wouldn’t read too much into what the t shirt represents and your friend’s daughter. I doubt she genuinely believes it and there is often a high level of banter in cities with two universities. There were probably people from the other uni wearing equally insulting tshirts. Where it is more problematic is if there is a broader culture where people feel uncomfortable or that x uni isn’t for them. I remember having some ridiculous conversations where people in my halls thought all kids at state schools were druggies with guns. The conversations always started with ‘where did you go’. It was beyond their comprehension that I was state educated. Generally I actually found the old money types to be some of the nicest people. I guess because they didn’t have anything to prove. It was the new money rahs that were often a bit vile.

LakieLady · 12/10/2018 08:12

Plus in some parts of uk there's still the grammar school system, but unlike in the past currently it's generally better off families that can afford the tuition that frankly seems to be required to have a hope of passing the test.

Another mum told my SIL that my niece would NOT get into grammar school without lots of private tuition. Not only did she get in, she got some sort of special award for coming top in the entrance exam.

The other mum's daughter failed, despite all the tuition she'd had. Grin

My SIL is so nice, she was very sympathetic. If I'd been in her shoes, I'd have had the biggest gloat in the history of the universe.

I also have a colleague whose daughter got a 90% scholarship to Roedean, despite having been to less than average state primary.

I wonder if things have changed. I'm so old I went to secondary in the days of the 11+, and I knew lots of people who went to RG and Oxbridge from the state sector. There was also a "secondary modern" school near me that had an amazing record of getting kids who'd failed the 11+ into top unis. I knew people from there who went to Durham, Exeter, Liverpool, LSE, Imperial and Cambridge. (In fairness, the lad who went to Cambridge was an absolute bloody genius and him failing the 11+ is one of the reasons I disagree with it.)

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 12/10/2018 08:15

It's a vile t-shirt & I wouldn't have worn it as a RG student but students wear/say this sort of thing as a wind-up and most people will good naturedly join in with the retorts. It doesn't look nice but without knowing the context I wouldn't write her off (yet). Personally I would have cringed a bit if friends wore them though- does you no favours!

Also as an ex private & public school girl, most of my school cohort wouldn't have worn this anyway. It's crass and a red rag to a bull. Although the bull is apparently allowed to say what it like back to us, not necessarily in jest. I find snobs & inverted snob class warriors equally as tiresome.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2018 08:19

“There was also a "secondary modern" school near me that had an amazing record of getting kids who'd failed the 11+ into top unis”

Really? What school was that?

roundaboutthetown · 12/10/2018 08:26

Secondary moderns didn't have 6th forms, so I'm not sure how the Cambridge thing happened. He must have gone somewhere else, first.

MartaTam · 12/10/2018 08:31

@Graphista

MartaTam I don't believe that it's true that RG universities take a greater proportion of state school pupils.

That’s not quite what I said. What I said was:

Most students at RG unis are made of of state school dc not the other way round.

Meaning, state school children outnumber private school children in nearly all RG Unis. So on that basis you can’t assume the idiots wearing the t shirts were all privileged or private school kids as it seemed you were alluding to. But that aside, of course private school children are represented more in RG universities compared to non RG, but that’s not what I was saying upthread.

Taffeta · 12/10/2018 08:34

The other mum's daughter failed, despite all the tuition she'd had. grin

I know this is an anonymous forum so you can say what you like, and this person you don’t know and was nasty to your SIL, but still, really? Gloating because a kid failed the 11+.

Pretty atrocious Hmm

InertPotato · 12/10/2018 08:41

Good grief. Surely you have to feel a teensy bit sorry for someone this crass?

MartaTam · 12/10/2018 08:51

Another mum told my SIL that my niece would NOT get into grammar school without lots of private tuition.
@Lakie

I don’t think that’s necessarily coming from a bad place if your SIL lives in a fiercely competitive area. The other mum could have thought she was being helpful by warning your SILto get a tutor. It’s just unfortunate that inspite of it, her dc didn’t get in. What would you say to the ones who keep their tutoring secret? It’s precisely because they hopeothers will fail. So, I wouldn’t gloat over the poor mum who was trying to be helpful.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2018 09:16

"Secondary moderns didn't have 6th forms, so I'm not sure how the Cambridge thing happened. He must have gone somewhere else, first." Most of them didn't do O Levels/GCSEs either. Very interested in what school it was.

WhichSchoolForDS · 12/10/2018 09:18

Inverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery but on here, you’re allowed to be an inverse snob it seems

Inverse snobbery isn't just as bad as snobbery (I say this as someone who went to a top university and is fairly middle class) because of the power differential.

MereDintofPandiculation · 12/10/2018 09:30

Secondary moderns didn't have 6th forms Not necessarily true. Both secondary moderns in my home town had 6th forms, albeit not very large and with a very restricted range of A-levels. This was pre-GCSE, so they didn't do O-levels, they did CSE.

GCSE was brought in to combine C-level and CSE into one scale, because employers of school leavers tended not to give credit for the relatively new CSE.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 12/10/2018 11:17

Inverted snobbery is far worse to me. Snobs usually get their just desserts when people transcend barriers and are fine. People are also usually quick to call it out these days.

Inverted Snobbery blocks achievement, aspiration and attainment and also goes pretty unchecked, it seems.

dorisdog · 12/10/2018 17:32

Vile and bullying. If my DCs wore t-shirts like that I'd be mighty pissed off with them. (Not that they are at Russell Group Universities.) YNBU.

Mmest75 · 12/10/2018 17:35

Don’t look down on anyone - you never know where you might meet them on the way up.

Supercaliwotsit · 12/10/2018 17:43

This is shockingly bad. YANBU.

masterblaster · 12/10/2018 17:46

It is crass to wear that shirt, but YABU to assume people got to RG universities because of class privilege. My wife and I both went to Cambridge, and neither of us went to private school.